Foucault and self-policing

[Seth]

I'm sure more people would murder if they though they could get away with it, but I think that's not the main reason people refrain from killing. There are many and varied evolutionary and cultural reasons for our moral and ethical responses to the word.

But anyway, Foucault... what do you think about his ideas that we are self-policing? How does that fit in with other explanations of our behaviours?

I doubt that more people would murder if they thought they could get away with it. After all, people who DO murder think they can get away with it, or they just don't care if they get caught, and they most often are.

Nor would I call the fear of being watched as a disincentive to crime "self-policing." Those who self-police are those who recognize atavistic thoughts and urges as socially improper and suppress them because they have a moral and ethical compass, not primarily because they actually have and want to give in to those urges and do socially inappropriate things but are afraid that someone is watching them.

I think the crux of it is where the line is drawn between what society thinks is acceptable and what an individual thinks is acceptable. Most people are pretty clear that the line is nowhere near murder/rape/etc. But there are certainly grey areas that are less serious crimes than that where individual beliefs might vary from society's standards.

I agree. Like smoking pot or same-sex relationships.

This is where the standards of the community come under scrutiny. Is it reasonable, rational or acceptable to drown someone thought to be a "witch?" Is it a mark of human intelligence to throw an individual in prison for life for possessing a single joint of a weed that grows in roadside ditches?

And where is the line drawn when the social code intersects with the ordinary and natural human desire to live freely without harming others?

[pErvinalia]

Yeah, well there's no "natural" laws as you want them to be, despite your years of trying to convince people.

Speaking personally, my morals don't align very well with our current society. There's things I would consider doing if I wouldn't go to jail for it.

[cronus]

Pyramid scam - from the top you can see all but there's a chance you'll have your heart ripped out at some point

[Coito ergo sum]

Damn, I remember Foucault now, read that in college... never cared to have my policing done by an outside watcher, and I don't care for the guy's concepts any more now than I did them...

I know very little. Just what I heard on the radio today and a bit more from Wikipedia. It just sounded interesting and worth comparing with other ideas about how we behave.

It clearly does work.

Look at Facebook. Facebook is largely, although not completely, non-anonymous. Folks generally use their true identities there. As such, most people can leave their "walls" or "timelines" or whatever the hell they're calling it now open for anyone to post anything on, and most of the time -- the vast majority of time - people only post stuff that is reasonable and non-offensive. Why? Because if you post something on someone's timeline, you know that all their and your friends, at least, are going to see it (or at least a good number of them). So, if you post something like, weirdly pornographic, on someone's page, they will tell you not to do it and all your and their friends will be all like, "dude, WTF man? Don't post shit like that on a public place..." And, people will think you're a weirdo. So most people just take it easy. Most of the time, even cheated on spouses or significant others don't post stuff on their page or the offender's page, because nobody wants that shit sitting out there in public -- not the offender and not the offended. Of course, their are exceptions, but when you look at facebook, it really does conform basically to my description. It is a panopticon, of sorts.

Google Glass is also going to lead to a similar behavioral control throughout the developed world. Almost everything is going to be on some video somewhere, and the authorities and lots of private persons are going to have the ability to hone in on that video. Think of it -- a spouse thinks you're at Hooters ogling waitresses -- she will soon be able to click on her app that lets her see whose Google Glasses are set to public and who are in the vicinity of the Hooters restaurant. She can then click through them, and see what she can find out, and Hooters will have a cams set up too, very likely, to show what is going on in there.

Strip joints could be peeked in on in this manner, and no matter how hard they try to keep the video surveillance out, it will come in. It will add risk to the illegal blowjob in the VIP room. And, lots of risk to the husband or wife who stops there on the way home from work, and who shows up some video camera.

[Robert_S]

I do not envy the person who gets caught taking illicit pics or video in the strip club.

[Coito ergo sum]

I do not envy the person who gets caught taking illicit pics or video in the strip club.

well, the idea from the perspective of the OP is that the goings on in the strip club will wind up being controlled by the chance of being discovered....

In other words, as the culture becomes such where the chance of being recorded becomes high enough, the behavior of those involved will modify accordingly. For example, while I might have gone to a strip club when there was some anonymity possible -- I would never do so if I thought there was a chance I'd be on video. The culture will change.

[JimC]

There is always a pendulum swing between extremes...