Atheism and conscience

[Rum]

A couple of days ago my mother asked me to order some flowers on line for some people who were kind to her when she was staying over near my dad when he was in hospital. She gave me the money to reimburse my credit card payment as she did so.

Now I could very easily have pocketed the money and not sent the flowers. My mother will never see the people concerned again and they would not know either way if they hadn't received them. And yet I did send them. I didn't actually even consider not doing so, but it occurred to me that in a situation where there are no possible consequences - certainly not from on high - what actually stops us doing what are dishonest but ultimately harmless 'bad' things.

[Audley Strange]

Our own self image.

[Animavore]

I think we're held by fear of having our reputation damaged if found out. That's a pretty good motivater to do the right thing. We don't need gods to be 'moral'. We just need other people.

[NineBerry]

Because the NSA knows it and could tell your mother.

[PsychoSerenity]

I didn't actually even consider not doing so,

...until it was too late.

- what actually stops us doing what are dishonest but ultimately harmless 'bad' things.

And now you're wondering how to be more unscrupulous in the future?

[Rum]

I didn't actually even consider not doing so,

...until it was too late.

- what actually stops us doing what are dishonest but ultimately harmless 'bad' things.

And now you're wondering how to be more unscrupulous in the future?

'Twas but a thought experiment! Honest guv!

[PsychoSerenity]

But seriously, I think Audley is pretty much there. We want to be able to think of ourselves as people who do good things. And I imagine in this case you considered having those flowers sent to be far more beneficial to the world (letting people know they're appreciated) than you hanging on to the money.

[tattuchu]

You could very well have pocketed the money and bought cheese! That's a hell of a reward! So the reward for doing the right thing must be even greater. Or do we even need a selfish reward? Perhaps doing the right thing without reward...is its own reward!

[fishie]

A couple of days ago my mother asked me to order some flowers on line for some people who were kind to her when she was staying over near my dad when he was in hospital. She gave me the money to reimburse my credit card payment as she did so.

Now I could very easily have pocketed the money and not sent the flowers. My mother will never see the people concerned again and they would not know either way if they hadn't received them. And yet I did send them. I didn't actually even consider not doing so, but it occurred to me that in a situation where there are no possible consequences - certainly not from on high - what actually stops us doing what are dishonest but ultimately harmless 'bad' things.

We be group animals. In our benefit to do what's good for the group. Be bad and we run the risk of being ostracized. Bad for us, good motivation to behave, even when we have the opportunity not to. And come on! When you old mum said " did you send those flowers for me dear?" , could you lie at her and get away with it? MUMS KNOW WHEN WE LIE. Don't matter how big and clever we are. And who wants to feel like a naughty 5 year old again?

[Pappa]

But seriously, I think Audley is pretty much there. We want to be able to think of ourselves as people who do good things. And I imagine in this case you considered having those flowers sent to be far more beneficial to the world (letting people know they're appreciated) than you hanging on to the money.

You should read "Spent". It analyses our consumer habits (including tangentially which charities we chose to support) from the perspective of our evolutionary biology, putting the majority of our publicly visible behaviours down to trait display. It's a great read.

[pErvinalia]

Our own self image.

This, i reckon. Essentially we are socially conditioned to view some actions as more right than others. In that sense, it's like an objective moral from on high...

[orpheus]

Don't overlook empathy. I do such things because I put myself in the shoes of others and try to think how they might feel. In the case Rum describes, I'd think of how the people might feel on receiving the flowers and I'd want to do them that kindness. Furthermore, I'd think of how my mother feels - quite obvious, since she wanted to send the flowers in the first place - and I'd want to do her the kindness of helping her, rather than thwarting her wishes.

Empathy. Don't leave home without it.

[pErvinalia]

Yeah, that too.

[Animavore]

Empathy is over-rated. Makes you a less vicious, avaristic and cruel person. Not a good thing if you want to be a CEO

[Sean Hayden]

I don't think it would be harmless.