Brilliant NHS

[Arse]

No, its the truth. The LibDems have done nothing in coalition other than allow the Tories to walk all over them. They're useless.

[Svartalf]

Voting LibDem is basically voting Conservative anyway, they've shown their true colours by going into coalition with them.

Congratulations, that's truly cretinous.

How so? it's not like the current tory/libdem gummint had acted signiçficantly different than it would as a pure tory bunch.

[Rum]

Our system is actually getting very expensive. Now that many countries have in effect a NHS there are comparisons to be made and lessons to learn. The French system mixes public and private and seems from all accounts to be working rather better than our system

I think it is a mistake just to assume the model proposed in 1946 should still apply as if time has stood still.

[Svartalf]

But your system is truly free for the end user (beside the taxes that finance it), while ours only refunds a part of the money to the end user, and usually requires said user to initially disburse the necessary funds before getting some of it back.
I count myself lucky that my own health service (a civil servants one rather than the common one) lets me get my meds for free without cash advance... I still have to pay for the physician and get back some e18 out of 25.

[mistermack]

Our system is actually getting very expensive. Now that many countries have in effect a NHS there are comparisons to be made and lessons to learn. The French system mixes public and private and seems from all accounts to be working rather better than our system

I think it is a mistake just to assume the model proposed in 1946 should still apply as if time has stood still.

Yeh but we've always had public and private. Most of our consultants do lots of private work. My sister has worked for years in a private hospital.

And it's the improvement in quality and, ironically, the resultant increase in pensioners, that makes the costs go up.

It's not like we are paying more, and getting the same. We are paying more, and getting LOTS more.

[Strontium Dog]

No, its the truth. The LibDems have done nothing in coalition other than allow the Tories to walk all over them. They're useless.

Absolute fiction. You clearly have no idea what you're talking about.

How so? it's not like the current tory/libdem gummint had acted signiçficantly different than it would as a pure tory bunch.

Completely untrue. I could give you a dozen things that would be significantly different just off the top of my head.

[Svartalf]

then do it.

[Rum]

I think it is fair to say the LibDems have taken the edge of what would otherwise have been a pretty rabid right wing agenda government sneaking all sorts of reforms in under the radar in the guise of 'cost cutting'. They don't even say 'We're all in it together' any more.

[Arse]

Other than allow the Tories to walk all over them, the LibDems have achieved nothing by going into coalition with the nasty party. I think they will see their vote down considerably at the next election.

[Rum]

Other than allow the Tories to walk all over them, the LibDems have achieved nothing by going into coalition with the nasty party. I think they will see their vote down considerably at the next election.

Well they have as I said above. Thy have influenced quite a few of the welfare facing policies. However they will, I agree, be whitewashed at the next election.

[mistermack]

I think it is fair to say the LibDems have taken the edge of what would otherwise have been a pretty rabid right wing agenda government sneaking all sorts of reforms in under the radar in the guise of 'cost cutting'. They don't even say 'We're all in it together' any more.

Yeh but, no but, yeh but,
if they had had a bit more foresight, they would have stayed out of government, and just voted down the shit that the Tories tried to slide in under the counter. Dave Cameron leading a minority government would have done a lot less damage.
And the Liberals are all set for annihilation, now, come the next election.

The truth is that the Liberals have been pretty much Tory all along, and this has just made it obvious.

[Arse]

Other than allow the Tories to walk all over them, the LibDems have achieved nothing by going into coalition with the nasty party. I think they will see their vote down considerably at the next election.

Well they have as I said above. Thy have influenced quite a few of the welfare facing policies. However they will, I agree, be whitewashed at the next election.

Their influence hasn't gone very far though, they probably would have wielded more power to influence policy if they were outside of government and Cameron was leading a minority government, as Mistermack has already pointed out.

[Strontium Dog]

then do it.

- Top rate of income tax would have been lowered to 40%, not 45%, vetoed by Nick Clegg
- Point at which you start paying tax wouldn't have been raised to £10,000
- Inheritance tax would have been cut
- Higher rate of Capital Gains Tax wouldn't have been raised from 18% to 28%
- Extra funding for disadvantaged pupils wouldn't have happened
- Tories would have enabled a tax break for married couples, vetoed by Nick Clegg
- Tories would have made it easier to sack people, Adrian Beecroft plans vetoed by Vince Cable
- Income at which you begin paying off student loans would be £18,000 not £21,000, vetoed by Vince Cable
- Steve Webb's pension reforms wouldn't have happened
- Trident renewal kicked into grass (this still might happen should Tories or Labour win outright next time)
- Theresa May's snooper's charter would have gone through, vetoed by Nick Clegg
- Schools would be allowed to be profit-making, vetoed by Nick Clegg
- Human Rights Act would have been scrapped, vetoed by the Lib Dems

I think there's at least a dozen there. As I say, that is just the stuff off the top of my head, the major stuff that will have actually been reported. Battles go on behind the scenes every single day.

[Rum]

I think it is fair to say the LibDems have taken the edge of what would otherwise have been a pretty rabid right wing agenda government sneaking all sorts of reforms in under the radar in the guise of 'cost cutting'. They don't even say 'We're all in it together' any more.

Yeh but, no but, yeh but,
if they had had a bit more foresight, they would have stayed out of government, and just voted down the shit that the Tories tried to slide in under the counter. Dave Cameron leading a minority government would have done a lot less damage.
And the Liberals are all set for annihilation, now, come the next election.

The truth is that the Liberals have been pretty much Tory all along, and this has just made it obvious.

Remember the so called 'Bank Crisis' was at its height. The last thing anyone wanted was a hung parliament. Stability, such as it is, is all that has kept us from the fate of the likes of Greece and Spain.

[ronmcd]

then do it.

- Top rate of income tax would have been lowered to 40%, not 45%, vetoed by Nick Clegg
- Point at which you start paying tax wouldn't have been raised to £10,000
- Inheritance tax would have been cut
- Higher rate of Capital Gains Tax wouldn't have been raised from 18% to 28%
- Extra funding for disadvantaged pupils wouldn't have happened
- Tories would have enabled a tax break for married couples, vetoed by Nick Clegg
- Tories would have made it easier to sack people, Adrian Beecroft plans vetoed by Vince Cable
- Income at which you begin paying off student loans would be £18,000 not £21,000, vetoed by Vince Cable
- Steve Webb's pension reforms wouldn't have happened
- Trident renewal kicked into grass (this still might happen should Tories or Labour win outright next time)
- Theresa May's snooper's charter would have gone through, vetoed by Nick Clegg
- Schools would be allowed to be profit-making, vetoed by Nick Clegg
- Human Rights Act would have been scrapped, vetoed by the Lib Dems

I think there's at least a dozen there. As I say, that is just the stuff off the top of my head, the major stuff that will have actually been reported. Battles go on behind the scenes every single day.

All used by the Tories as bargaining positions, allowing them to give up some policies they really didn't care about, while getting away with :
- the bedroom tax (imagine Libdem outrage to that on the opposition benches?)
- the massive top-down reorganisation of the NHS in England (ditto above .. and Shirley Williams, hang your head in shame)
- austerity economic policy, which lets face it Vince Cable does not agree with, but for his job & career prospect supports now
- energy policy, muddying the waters over green technologies causing investment to go elsewhere, where it's not made uncompetitive by underhand nuclear subsidies.

And lets face it. Those polices shit all over the ones you listed in terms of importance, both to the country and to the Tories.

The Libdems have been utterly exploited (let themselves, really). They take the flack for the hideous policies, AND they got royally fucked over their one real demand: AV.