Weinergate

[Coito ergo sum]

Or even better, is there solid evidence that all spouses care that much about whether or not their partner has sex with others?

I think it is incontrovertible that "not all" spouses care about whether or not their partner has sex with others.

However, i think it's pretty much incontrovertible that the vast majority of spouses care who their spouse has sex with.

Or at least say they do. Or rather, don't really go around saying that they don't.

Well, the only way to determine what they think is to listen to what they say, absent mind reading devices.

If one were to make the assertion that most spouses really don't care who their spouses have sex with, I think that seems counterintuitive and contrary to all the available objective evidence. The whole idea of getting married is to engage in mutual promises of exclusivity, and even without an express promise in that regard the baseline assumption in our culture is that having sex with someone else outside of that marriage is adultery. Open marriages where a spouse is allowed by the other to have sex with others is generally regarded as outside the norm.

[Robert_S]

Or even better, is there solid evidence that all spouses care that much about whether or not their partner has sex with others?

I think it is incontrovertible that "not all" spouses care about whether or not their partner has sex with others.

However, i think it's pretty much incontrovertible that the vast majority of spouses care who their spouse has sex with.

Or at least say they do. Or rather, don't really go around saying that they don't.

Well, the only way to determine what they think is to listen to what they say, absent mind reading devices.

If one were to make the assertion that most spouses really don't care who their spouses have sex with, I think that seems counterintuitive and contrary to all the available objective evidence. The whole idea of getting married is to engage in mutual promises of exclusivity, and even without an express promise in that regard the baseline assumption in our culture is that having sex with someone else outside of that marriage is adultery. Open marriages where a spouse is allowed by the other to have sex with others is generally regarded as outside the norm.

People are often quite closeted about things regarded as outside the norm. What I'm getting at is that from an outside perspective, we should be reluctant to judge cheating by the same standards we judge stealing. It's not as clear cut as often.

[hadespussercats]

I thought this article was interesting. Pretty right-on, imo:

http://therumpus.net/2013/07/the-slut-s ... ny-weiner/

[Robert_S]

I thought this article was interesting. Pretty right-on, imo:

http://therumpus.net/2013/07/the-slut-s ... ny-weiner/

Nice read!

[Bella Fortuna]

I thought this article was interesting. Pretty right-on, imo:

http://therumpus.net/2013/07/the-slut-s ... ny-weiner/

Nice read!

Yes!

[Warren Dew]

If you'd cheat on your wife, you'd cheat on your country. It's that simple I think.

That seems to be overly simplistic.

Generally, people are as faithful as their options.

Refraining from cheating on a wife or a country is exactly refraining from pursuing certain optional alternatives to remaining faithful.

[Daedalus]

I don't even know what it feels like to be offended, so I can't claim moral outrage here. I will say that I find Weiner's behavior distasteful, but that doesn't matter in terms of politics.

What I find far more interesting, is his seeming lack of insight, and control in the midst of this. He lied, having already been caught, then placed himself in a position where he knew he'd be under the most intense scrutiny, while continuing to lie. It matters less that he sorta-cheated, and even the content of his lies, than that he was either unable or unwilling to realize what the likely outcomes would be for him and his family.

The choices for why probably run some kind of gamut between poor impulse control in this area, some kind of psychological and emotional issues, intense narcissism, and who knows what else. Either way, that's not the guy I'd want to drive the bus, never mind be mayor.

Unlike someone like Clinton, or Spitzer, his tenure in office was never so impressive that it makes me think he can overcome his obvious shortcomings. Who wants a shmuck who can't control his actions, and thinks he's going to get away with the least subtle deception on Earth?

[Daedalus]

double post

[Coito ergo sum]

Or even better, is there solid evidence that all spouses care that much about whether or not their partner has sex with others?

I think it is incontrovertible that "not all" spouses care about whether or not their partner has sex with others.

However, i think it's pretty much incontrovertible that the vast majority of spouses care who their spouse has sex with.

Or at least say they do. Or rather, don't really go around saying that they don't.

Well, the only way to determine what they think is to listen to what they say, absent mind reading devices.

If one were to make the assertion that most spouses really don't care who their spouses have sex with, I think that seems counterintuitive and contrary to all the available objective evidence. The whole idea of getting married is to engage in mutual promises of exclusivity, and even without an express promise in that regard the baseline assumption in our culture is that having sex with someone else outside of that marriage is adultery. Open marriages where a spouse is allowed by the other to have sex with others is generally regarded as outside the norm.

People are often quite closeted about things regarded as outside the norm. What I'm getting at is that from an outside perspective, we should be reluctant to judge cheating by the same standards we judge stealing. It's not as clear cut as often.

Well, on that I will agree with you. Affairs are not the same thing as stealing nor is there a correlation between affair-having and criminal activity such as theft. I do not subscribe to the notion that having an affair makes someone inherently untrustworthy. The human sex drive and love drive are powerful things, and even when a person loves their spouse dearly, sometimes people have affairs.

I'm not of a black-and-white mind -- I don't think a person is either bad or good. I don't; think that if you have an affair, you're always a cheater. People can change and better themselves. People can go from drug-addled sex maniacs to sober, monogamous, ideal spouses and parents. It's done a lot. Even though I am not in the least a Christian, being an atheist and all, I am a believer in redemption. That redemption is in this life, however, and entails having done wrong, but changing oneself to do better. It is forgiveness for mistakes.

Sometimes good people do bad things.

[Coito ergo sum]

I thought this article was interesting. Pretty right-on, imo:

http://therumpus.net/2013/07/the-slut-s ... ny-weiner/

Nice article.

Where I diverge is that I don't really care about Weiner's sexting activities. Where I'm bothered by him is the following:

His recklessness - the guy was a US Congressman, and while in office, apparently during the day when people who have jobs getting paid $170,000 a year generally ought to be doing something productive, and he seems to have spent huge amounts of time jerking off in video and text chats on the internet, sending out pictures of himself, and such.
His dishonesty - when it first came up, he went down the usual road of denial and obfuscation. He even pretended to hire a private detective to investigate the "hacking" of his account. He wouldn't admit initially that it was him, and tried to worm his way around it.

Even that is forgivable in my view, because he lied only about what he probably felt was an embarrassing personal thing. He reacted badly and he was found out. So, he said his mea culpas, apologized to his wife, his wife said it was all between them, he was contrite, said it was what it was, and then he moved on. I think he deserves to be allowed to put the thing in the past and keep his masturbatory fantasies private.

However, after having said he was done with it, it seems that during his apologies -- not after, but during the whole contrition and mea culpa stuff, he was just continuing on with the activities with wild abandon.

Fine -- he does what he does, and he was caught in more lies about it. Whether it's important is up to each individual - however, it to me looks like a huge lapse in judgment. Very, very poor judgment and a very, very obvious inability to control himself even a little bit.

According to one of the women he was involved with, Sidney Leathers, or whatever her name is, this guy was involved in this several times a day. That's another thing. If his interests are focused on winning elections and sexting and masturbating for hours each day, I'm not sure he's leaving all that much room in the day to actually do his job. It seems this is a larger problem among politicians. It seems they think their jobs are to run campaigns and get elected, rather than govern.

[Warren Dew]

I thought this article was interesting. Pretty right-on, imo:

http://therumpus.net/2013/07/the-slut-s ... ny-weiner/

Good article, by the way.

Personally, I don't care any more about sexting than about normal flirting. If his wife cares, then they should come to a mutually agreeable solution; otherwise it's not comparable to actual cheating.

But then, I'm not a progressive Democrat who thinks actual cheating is fine because it's so macho, so I'm not in the category the article is addressing.

[Robert_S]

According to one of the women he was involved with, Sidney Leathers, or whatever her name is, this guy was involved in this several times a day. That's another thing. If his interests are focused on winning elections and sexting and masturbating for hours each day, I'm not sure he's leaving all that much room in the day to actually do his job. It seems this is a larger problem among politicians. It seems they think their jobs are to run campaigns and get elected, rather than govern.

"That government which governs least..."



I guess it's better than dreaming up new portion restrictions.

[Coito ergo sum]

Anthony Weiner can’t even manage to play nice on the playground.
The scandal-ridden mayoral primary loser — who reportedly flipped the finger after delivering his concession speech — was spotted at Union Square Park playground with his and Huma Abedin’s son, Jordan Zain, on Thursday when another child had an accident and peed on a swing. We’re told the father grabbed his kid and went to find a napkin to clean up, as Weiner made his way over to the exact swing.
A spy tells us Weiner was heard screaming, “Thanks for leaving this thing soaking wet.”
“The other dad said he was going to clean it up and told him, ‘It’s funny you’re the one talking about other people’s self–control,’ ” says the witness.

http://pagesix.com/2013/09/22/weiner-lo ... -kids-pee/

[hadespussercats]

Anthony Weiner can’t even manage to play nice on the playground.
The scandal-ridden mayoral primary loser — who reportedly flipped the finger after delivering his concession speech — was spotted at Union Square Park playground with his and Huma Abedin’s son, Jordan Zain, on Thursday when another child had an accident and peed on a swing. We’re told the father grabbed his kid and went to find a napkin to clean up, as Weiner made his way over to the exact swing.
A spy tells us Weiner was heard screaming, “Thanks for leaving this thing soaking wet.”
“The other dad said he was going to clean it up and told him, ‘It’s funny you’re the one talking about other people’s self–control,’ ” says the witness.

http://pagesix.com/2013/09/22/weiner-lo ... -kids-pee/

[Forty Two]

Weiner goes in -- http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... -girl.html