State v Zimmerman

[Coito ergo sum]

What rules did he break so had to be stalked? Wear a hoodie?

Skalking? The concrete path is common! It leads to his patio.

He wasn't on the concrete path, or at least that is what Zimmerman reported on the phone.

Nobody alleged stalking here.

And, the prosecution's witness has already testified that it was reasonable to call the police about Trayvon giving the reported behavior. That was the prosecution's witness.

[Coito ergo sum]

There is a path there! It is common ground. You only own the patio. The community mows the grass, not you.

So, if Martin lived in the community, Zimmerman wold be within his rights to wander about at night on the grass outside Martin's home and nobody should have the right to ask him what he's doing there?

You seem to give Martin unfettered right to wander about the place as he sees fit without being questioned, but Zimmerman didn't have that same right? He wasn't allowed to go where Martin went? And, he doesn't have the right to address persons on the public way?

[Tero]

He was acting "creepy", which I take it he was trying to follow unnoticed. It did not work.

Nothing illegal here! Don't start critisizing!

So, I still put responsibility on the 29 year old idiot. If the suspect is high, call the cops and wait.

[Coito ergo sum]

He was acting "creepy", which I take it he was trying to follow unnoticed. It did not work.

Nothing illegal here! Don't start critisizing!

So, I still put responsibility on the 29 year old idiot. If the suspect is high, call the cops and wait.

If Martin did what Zimmerman did would Zimmerman have been justified in physically attacking him?

[Tero]

Nobody is allowed to attack someone for something they said. But idiot Zimmerman put himself in a situation where he was forced to use a gun.

You see? The gun did not prevent anything. It got Z in trouble.

[Sean Hayden]

Why wouldn't I be able to beat your ass for following me around at night with a gun? Is that not a fair question?

He was following the kid and the kid noticed. You're assuming at that point that the kid has an obligation to do what exactly? Make small talk? I believe he asked him "Why are you following me?" and he didn't like the answer he got.

[Coito ergo sum]

Nobody is allowed to attack someone for something they said. But idiot Zimmerman put himself in a situation where he was forced to use a gun.

You see? The gun did not prevent anything. It got Z in trouble.

Since Martin wasn't aware, apparently, that Zimmerman was armed, then the gun did not cause the confrontation. The gun may well have prevented Zimmerman from suffering grievous head trauma or even death, if Martin really was on top of Zimmerman pounding his head into the pavement as the defense contends.

Since you acknowledge that "nobody is allowed to attack someone for something they said," why do you single out Zimmerman for the idiot label, which you've used many times. Yet when referring to Martin, who was in your words not allowed to attack Zimmerman for something he said, you don't call him "idiot Martin?"

[Coito ergo sum]

Why wouldn't I be able to beat your ass for following me around at night with a gun? Is that not a fair question?

Yes, but the prosecution doesn't allege Zimmerman had his gun drawn. They allege it was concealed.

He was following the kid and the kid noticed. You're assuming at that point that the kid has an obligation to do what exactly? Make small talk? I believe he asked him "Why are you following me?" and he didn't like the answer he got.

This seems to credit Martin with the right to roam freely about the complex, but deny that same right to Zimmerman. And, Zimmerman actually lived there.

[Sean Hayden]

He was following the kid. That changes everything and you know it.

I'm not sure what the law says, maybe it is okay to follow people around like that. But I'm not going to defend just anyone's right to follow strangers with guns.

It doesn't matter if Zimmerman had his gun drawn. As someone being followed you can assume the person following you intends to harm you and may be armed.

[Coito ergo sum]

He was following the kid. That changes everything and you know it.

No, actually, it does not. If a person is following behind you in community, you do not then have the right to turn and attack him. Folks object to "stand your ground" and want to advocate THAT sort of self defense? No "stand your ground" but if someone is following behind you you can attack them?

Doing away with stand your ground would make Martin have to wait even longer before taking that kind of defensive measure. If we do away with stand your ground he'd not only have to wait until he was in fear of his life or great bodily harm, he'd have to make sure he couldn't reasonably run away.

I'm not sure what the law says, maybe it is okay to follow people around like that. But I'm not going to defend just anyone's right to follow strangers with guns.

It doesn't matter if Zimmerman had his gun drawn. As someone being followed you can assume the person following you intends to harm you and may be armed.

You can assume that someone following you intends to harm you? Have you ever walked down a city street before? Plenty of people are "following" you for all you know.

And, again, if you grant Martin the right to defend himself because he thinks someone following him has ill-intent, you're giving people MORE leeway than even stand your ground presently allows! Don't you see that? You want to extend to people the right to attack people who have not attacked them because they may have ill-intent -- that's not allowed even in states with stand your ground.

[Tero]

No, go thru all my posts, we have a 29 year old idiot and a teen idiot. I would neverchallenge a teen idiot alone.

The gun influenced Z. It made him overconfident.

[Sean Hayden]

Yes, I can see that.

But I can also see that "following behind you in community" is not what happened here. I don't believe Zimmerman has denied singling this kid out to be followed -and because it was dark and he looked suspicious no less! Hardly a friendly neighborhood stroll.

[Coito ergo sum]

No, go thru all my posts, we have a 29 year old idiot and a teen idiot. I would neverchallenge a teen idiot alone.

The gun influenced Z. It made him overconfident.

So you surmise. I'd hate to have you on a jury if my life was on the line.

[Coito ergo sum]

Yes, I can see that.

But I can also see that "following behind you in community" is not what happened here. I don't believe Zimmerman has denied singling this kid out to be followed -and because it was dark and he looked suspicious no less! Hardly a friendly neighborhood stroll.

Actually, the way the 911 call sounds, it's Zimmerman who calls in while in his truck and reports Martin. The dispatcher says a squad car will be dispatched. Zimmerman informs the dispatcher that martin is running away. Then Martin gets out of the truck and can be heard running (breathing heavy). Dispatcher asks if he is pursuing, and Zimmerman says yes. Dispatcher says "We don't need you to do that" and Zimmerman sounds like he stops and says o.k. He remains on the phone, and sounds like he is no longer running. it's then that Zimmerman hangs up with the dispatcher -- long after Martin is no longer within eyeshot. Zimmerman doesn't know where he went specifically - he can't see him. Martin was gone. Zimmerman walked around apparently, and Martin had circled back. Then the confrontation ensues.

If you listen to the 911 call while looking at one of the overhead maps of the community that are available, with the markings of where Zimmerman's truck was and where the confrontation occurred, you will see that this was not a case where Zimmerman was hot on Martin's heels.

[Sean Hayden]

And you think that helps his case?

Sounds like a terrible nightmare for Martin. One that ended in him being shot to death.

What had Zimmerman seen Martin do prior to calling 911?