War On Secularism

[Brian Peacock]

Following on from the Vatican's appeasement of radical Islam to prosecute its forlorn fight against European secularism (small 's'), the Church now turns it loving eyes towards Judaism...

Fight against secularism unites Jews, Catholics, Pope says

Pope Francis being fellated by big business at the Wednesday
general audience in St. Peter's Square on June 5, 2013 .
Credit: Lauren Cater.

Christians and Jews can work together to challenge the contemporary problems of secularism and disrespect for the human person, Pope Francis told representatives of Judaism in a Vatican audience.

“Humanity needs our joint witness in favor of respect for the dignity of man and woman created in the image and likeness of God, and in favor of peace which is above all God’s gift,” the Bishop of Rome told members of the International Jewish Committee for Interreligious Consultations June 24.

“Friendly relations are in a way the basis for the development of a more official dialogue,” he added.

The audience with the Jewish leaders was also attended by Cardinal Kurt Koch, who is president of the Pontifical Council for Promoting Christian Unity, as well as head of the Vatican's Commission for Religious Relations with the Jews, and members of that office.

The Committee has held 21 meetings with Catholics so far, and Pope Francis said this has “certainly helped to reinforce mutual understanding and the links of friendship” between them. He welcomed their next meeting, which will be held in October in Madrid, which will consider challenges to faith in contemporary society.

In his first meeting as Bishop of Rome with official representatives of Judaism, he noted the Vatican II document Nostra Aetate, on the relation of the Church to non-Christian religions, as the Church's “key point of reference for relations with the Jewish people.”

“In that Council text, the Church recognizes that 'the beginnings of its faith and election are to be found in the patriarchs, Moses and prophets,'” he stated.

He emphasized that “due to our common roots, a Christian cannot be anti-Semitic,” and pointed to the writings of Saint Paul, who “firmly condemned hatred, persecution and all forms of anti-Semitism” and called the gifts and call of God “irrevocable.”

Nostra Aetate, he said, has been the basis for “greater awareness and mutual understanding” between Jews and Catholics in the past 40 years, and reflected on the good relations he had with the Jewish community when he was Archbishop of Buenos Aires.

“I had the joy of maintaining relations of sincere friendship with leaders of the Jewish world,” Pope Francis remarked. “We talked often of our respective religious identities, the image of man found in the Scriptures, and how to keep an awareness of God alive in a world now secularized in many ways.”

While head of the Church in Buenos Aires, Pope Francis even authored a book of dialogues between him and Abraham Skorka, an Argentine rabbi. “On Heaven and Earth” was written in Spanish, and was recently translated and published in English.

Pope Francis told the members of the International Jewish Committee that he met with Argentine Jews on various occasions to discuss the challenges which Jews and Christians both face.

“But above all, as friends, we enjoyed each other’s company,” he said. “We were all enriched through encounter and dialogue, and we welcomed each other, and this helped all of us grow as people and as believers.”

“I encourage you to follow this path trying, as you do so, to involve younger generations,” he added.

http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/ ... pope-says/

So, when The Holy Alliance has finally won the War On Secularism, which theocracy would you like to live under (for there can be only one)?

[klr]

So we've made the Catholics finally stop fighting with the Jews after 2,000 years. I guess that's progress. [/spin]

[Audley Strange]

Just remind them the Holy See were big on Hitler. The daft cunts are spending millions on hunting down a couple of remaining geriatrics, so seems to me they only need a quiet subtle reminder of why Christians cannot be trusted.

Mind you perhaps that's why Ratzi retired, the Zion lobby wouldn't deal with a German with any kind of Ultimate authority. Though didn't a lot of those Nazi's flee to South America?

Still if they wish to make a declaration of war let them. Then we don't even have to pretend to be civil to the mental fuckers anymore. I mean the religious authorities not their deluded goons. Oh we could have a time.

[HomerJay]

“Humanity needs our joint witness in favor of respect for the dignity of man and woman created in the image and likeness of God, and in favor of peace which is above all God’s gift,”

Ain't that the gift that keeps on giving.

[Xamonas Chegwé]

Better see if I can get a gun. Just in case any rampaging hordes of bishops and rabbis try to steal my scientific method.

Although I think they have probably been smoking a little too much of their joint witness.

[Brian Peacock]

One may get the feeling that this is a RCC initiative, but it's actually an inter-faith initiative which, as the Catholic News Agency painted it on 21 June 2013, is attempting to save the world from some from the horrors of Secular Ideology ...

Catholic and Muslim leaders meet for dialogue on secularism

From left to right: Apologists for kiddy-fiddlers and wife beaters,
June 17, 2013. OASIS Conference in Milan, Italy. Credit: Lauren Cater

The members of a foundation seeking to improve Christian and Muslim relations met in Milan this week to discuss the growing problems of global secularism and extremism.

“Secularism and ideology are two problems for Christians and Muslims today, in different ways maybe, but the topic is the same,” Maria Laura Conte, editorial director of Oasis International Foundation, told CNA June 17.

“We want the West and East to share experiences,” she added.

Experts met June 17 and 18 at the University of Milan to discuss the tightrope between secularism and ideology so often walked in both the West and the Middle East. This was the tenth annual meeting of the Oasis International Foundation.

“Through meetings like this where people can share their experiences, we can build a piece of this dialogue every day,” Conte said.

Speakers came from a wide variety of nations, including Iraq, Iran, Jordan, Morocco, Lebanon, Syria, Egypt, Tunisia, Saudi Arabia, Indonesia, Pakistan, the United States, France and Italy.

They included Cardinal Angelo Scola, archbishop of Milan and the network’s founder; Sami M. Angawi, president of al-Makkiyah al-Madaniyah Institution in Saudi Arabia; La Sorbonne professor Rémi Brague; Cardinal John O. Onaiyekan, archbishop of Abuja; and Jawad al-Khoei, a Shia leader from Iraq.

Cardinal Scola founded Oasis in 2004, after he was asked to do so by seven bishops of Damascus while he was rector of the Pontifical Lateran University.

The Damascene bishops hoped for cultural support in the midst of Syrian society, and the foundation has served as a forum for inter-cultural and inter-religious dialogue.

The Knights of Columbus have been supporting the Foundation since its creation ten years ago.

Carl Anderson, head of the Knights, called on Americans to “have some solidarity” and “extend a helping hand” to Christian communities in predominantly Muslim countries.

“If we don’t want Christian communities to disappear altogether, we’re going to have to spend more effort and greater attention to their plight and begin to develop ways of solidarity,” Anderson said at the conference June 17.

Anderson, who is a member of Oasis, noted that “the first thing is a recognition that there is a crisis in many countries and we have an obligation to respond to that crisis.”

“I hope Americans are more and more aware, because the situation in many countries is very difficult now,” he told CNA/EWTN News. “We Americans, have to redouble our commitment to religious liberty.”

He stressed the need to “understand that in many places of the world, even if we don’t hear about it, the test of the free exercise of religion is going on in various strenuous conditions.”

“It’s requiring many people to make great sacrifices, day in and day out.”

Anderson's comments were echoed by Cardinal Scola, who asked that Christians in the West show “love and support” to their brothers in the Middle East.

http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/ ... ecularism/

Putting aside the fact that every word quoted here is meaningless drivel, the Abrahamicists have been busy in the last few years branding secularism an ideology that opposes religiosity and religious freedom. This is nonsense of course, though it does create a useful common enemy and legitimise a three-pronged Holy War Of Words (for the present), because one would have to say that most secularists are quite OK with people being religious, they just think that membership of any religious club automatically gives you a special say in how people who are not in the club should think and act.

And supposing the War On Secularism can be won, what kind of societies do the Abrahamicists expect as a result if not one where their brands of religion are given some special, privileged position in the administration of executive power? And how will that work out when the Christian will not tolerate the doctrinal obligations of Islam, and the Muslim will not accept the tenets of Judaism? Will that lead to a more tolerant, peaceful, responsible and respectful society or a less tolerant, more divided one?

The War On Secularism will, in the end, only promote more wars between the Abrahamicists, and between the various sects they encompass. Only secular societies can guarantee both the freedom of religion and the freedom from religion, and any Catholic living in Iran, or Christian living in Israel will tell you the same.

I'll stop there before I really go off on one.

[JimC]

They just don't get it, do they...

A secular society should be the natural default position, and in many cases already is. Various religions can exist, just like little hobby clubs. I certainly wouldn't want to ban embroidery - Bron would kill me...

But hobbies like that, and religions, are just the private foibles of certain hominids, and have no position of privilege whatsoever...

[Brian Peacock]

Interesting letter on the Girl Guides new oath in the Scottish Herald this morning...

Girl Guides and secularism
Wednesday 26 June 2013

WITH regard to correspondence surrounding the Girl Guides abandoning the idea of a traditional obligatory vow to "love my God", nobody appears to have realised that a Guide who does wish to swear an oath to God and country will now not be able to do so.

Secularisation can mean many things; however, most basically it means the abandonment of the idea that a particular faith and morality are coterminous, or that institutions and culture can only tolerate one understanding of God. As institutions make space for diversity in society, they come under pressure to abandon references to God, or saints, or this or that faith — and can sometimes be tempted to abandon any teleological understanding altogether.

There is a major difference between accommodating a diversity of consciences, as freedom of religion demands, and imposing an authoritarian secularist ideology. One opens up an institution to reflect difference; the other abolishes difference and imposes what Pope Benedict XVI memorably called a "dictatorship of relativism" and this is what can be seen from last week's announcement.

Why can the Guides not follow the example of the Scout Association, which is retaining its promise to "do my duty to God", but allows alternative wording for people of other faiths – and later this year will accept atheists who will use a formula that does not include a religious reference?

The Guides labour under a classically secularist delusion that it is possible to unite people by imposing on them a banal formula which is either vacant or a licence for limitless egoism.

What it cannot be is pluralist. Self-oriented individuals who prioritise their own beliefs above those of others are under no obligation to respect or recognise those of others. The old formula, on the other hand, recognised God in the Christian understanding, namely one who bestows equality of dignity on all His creatures. Pluralism and tolerance were written into that understanding. But the secularist formula has no such underpinning. If a white supremacist were to join, and promise to be true to her beliefs, she would be encouraged by her vow to scorn other races. The Guides have ditched a creed which underpins pluralism in favour of another which is either vacuous or deeply anti-pluralist.

The Scouts offer the better alternative: a recognition of the essential core values underpinning the western Christian tradition from which Lord Baden-Powell's movement sprang, while making room for those with other primary allegiances.

The stated aim of The Scout Association is to "promote the development of young people... as responsible citizens and as members of their local, national and international communities".

It is an aim enabled by the Scouts' oath — and undermined by that of the Guides.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/comment/l ... m.21445633

On one hand I find myself agreeing with the point that a person has a right to believe whatever they like, and thus swear an oath to God if they feel so inclined. But on the other this in not really the issue and it appears as if God is being wedged back into an organisations operating principles on the basis of foot-stomping about secular oppression and intolerance.

On balane I think the Guides have done the right thing by removing God from their oath because the oath is a public declaration of allegiance to an organisation with no declared religious affiliations. The point is that no Girl Guide is being oppressed or having their freedom to believe in God limited simply by not having the opportunity to declare it in circumstances where it was mandatory before. Each Guide still enjoys total freedom of religion and can still rely on and be informed by her personal convictions. It is just that in a diverse and pluralistic organisation like the Guides the organisation have made it clear that a specific religious affiliation is no longer an implicit condition of membership.

It's misinforming to claims that secularism is limiting a persons religious freedom, or their freedom to express their religious affiliation here. The real question is why should God, Allah, Shivah or Thor etc ever be part of a pledge of allegiance to any self-declared non-religious organisation.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Check out the Jesusandmo.net thread.