Obama - Best US President for years

Coito ergo sum
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Re: Obama - Best US President for years

Post by Coito ergo sum » Fri Jun 21, 2013 1:57 pm

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:Are there, or have there ever been, moderate Republicans? And if so, why did they let this happen to their party?
In my view, the death of the Republican party began when they sold out to the Religious right. It was a two step process, generally speaking. In the 1960s, the Republicans were the party of civil rights and individual liberty, anti-war, and the like. The Democrats were the party of segregation, Jim Crow and foreign intervention.

Lyndon Johnson sided with the Republicans in 1964 to pass the Civil Rights Act. Recall, this was not the first time the Republicans tried to get a Civil Rights Act through. In 1957, Eisenhower spearheaded it and it was filibustered by the Democrats.

What happened when the Civil Rights Act passed is that that the southern Democrats began leaving the Democratic Party. They jumped to the Republican Party in the south, and lost the south for the Democrats for a long time.

What that meant is that in the 1970s, the Republicans saw easy votes in the south and catered to the religious and racist views, as the Democrats shifted left. This allowed powerful moral majority types and southern protestant evangelicals to wield considerable political power.

Reagan was a New Deal Democrat until the 1960s, when he left the Democratic Party to side with the Republicans, who were pro civil rights and pro individual liberty and pro-New Deal and very progressive with a small P. remember, it was Nixon who went to China -- it was Nixon who created the Environmental Protection Agency, etc.

Reagan was part of the Straussian pro-New Dealers who were also Anti-Communist and fled the McGovernite Democratic Party.

The problem is, that while Reagan was not overtly religious and did not use his religion to set policy and such, generally speaking, he sold his soul to the religious right for votes and the same goes for GHWBush -- Reagan and Bush were not Bible thumpers, but they were elected in part by Bible thumpers. So, what we are seeing now -- the George W Bush Bible Thumping and the Rick Perry, Michelle Bachmann, over the top religiosity in candidate after candidate is the result of that. They are paying the price for the votes they earned in the 1970s, and 1980 by assimilating the southern Democrats into their fold. Now, anyone trying to win the Republican party has to cater to the extreme religious nutfucks.

It has to be shaken. Jettison them. The problem is that if the GOP splits in two, the jettisoned nutfucks will form an independent party (they've been attracted to and bastardized the Tea Party, for example) and either you cater to them so they vote for you or their noninvolvement will ensure a GOP candidate has no chance to beat the Dem.

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Re: Obama - Best US President for years

Post by Svartalf » Fri Jun 21, 2013 2:04 pm

Coito ergo sum wrote:
mistermack wrote:It's a fact, but it's not saying much.

I'm trying to think of a recent one that did better. I'm a bit stuck. Any suggestions?
In the last 4 years? Definitely the best.
Best since 2001... Bill did better, though of course he wasn't handed a total ruin in the first place, like Bush Jr did Obie.
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Re: Obama - Best US President for years

Post by mistermack » Fri Jun 21, 2013 4:19 pm

Svartalf wrote:
Coito ergo sum wrote:
mistermack wrote:It's a fact, but it's not saying much.

I'm trying to think of a recent one that did better. I'm a bit stuck. Any suggestions?
In the last 4 years? Definitely the best.
Best since 2001... Bill did better, though of course he wasn't handed a total ruin in the first place, like Bush Jr did Obie.
I think Bill Clinton had congress on his side now and then, too. But he blew it in the end...
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Re: Obama - Best US President for years

Post by laklak » Fri Jun 21, 2013 4:25 pm

Monica blew the end, IIRC.
Yeah well that's just, like, your opinion, man.

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Re: Obama - Best US President for years

Post by Collector1337 » Fri Jun 21, 2013 4:42 pm

"Best US President for years?" Really?

Whatever shit you're smoking, you should hook me up with some.
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Re: Obama - Best US President for years

Post by Rum » Fri Jun 21, 2013 4:59 pm

Seems a nice chap. Heart in the right place...well left of centre that is (for a Merican that is..)

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Re: Obama - Best US President for years

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Fri Jun 21, 2013 5:09 pm

It's a myth that Reagan was a liberal-leaning president.
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Re: Obama - Best US President for years

Post by Svartalf » Fri Jun 21, 2013 5:15 pm

It's lucky he bankrupted the USSR, or he might have done it to the US.
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Gawdzilla Sama
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Re: Obama - Best US President for years

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Fri Jun 21, 2013 5:21 pm

Svartalf wrote:It's lucky he bankrupted the USSR, or he might have done it to the US.
The "Six Hundred Ship Navy" and "Star Wars" made the Soviets realize they couldn't outspend us.
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Re: Obama - Best US President for years

Post by Svartalf » Fri Jun 21, 2013 6:06 pm

Heck, YOU couldn't afford it either.
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Gawdzilla Sama
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Re: Obama - Best US President for years

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Fri Jun 21, 2013 6:09 pm

Svartalf wrote:Heck, YOU couldn't afford it either.
Maybe, but they didn't know that for sure. What they did know was that they couldn't do it, for certain. Reality started to sink in at that point. Glass noses came soon after.
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Re: Obama - Best US President for years

Post by Jason » Fri Jun 21, 2013 6:14 pm

*checks for Ian*

Cold War jingoism.

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Gawdzilla Sama
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Re: Obama - Best US President for years

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Fri Jun 21, 2013 6:25 pm

Făkünamę wrote:*checks for Ian*

Cold War jingoism.
Meh, a logical extension of M.A.D. "You can't beat us, so don't even think about trying."
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Re: Obama - Best US President for years

Post by mistermack » Fri Jun 21, 2013 8:52 pm

Actually, it was the massive drop in the price of crude oil that did for the Russian economy.

It would have been far cheaper for Russia to counter star wars, than for the US to produce it.
For every bit of star wars tech, there was a counter measure costing a tiny fraction. It never was a runner. Just a Reagan fantasy, and the Russians knew it perfectly well.

Gorbachov gets all the credit for the change in Russia, in my book. Man of the century as far as I'm concerned.
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Re: Obama - Best US President for years

Post by Ian » Fri Jun 21, 2013 8:58 pm

Jed Bartlet was better.

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