Guns used for lawful self-defense Pt. 5

[JimC]

Anyone got any idea when this argument will be laid to rest? - It's been going on for nearly 5 full threads now.
A ball-park figure will do.

The word "infinite" springs to mind...

[MrJonno]

Seth's comments are weird to me. Because he has never lived in a truly free country, he thinks what he has is superior.

Enjoy your fantasy, Seth.

Oh, I do, slave-boy. I do. I also enjoy going out whenever it pleases me to do so to shoot and blow shit up. Great fun!

As obviously blowing shit up is what freedom is all about

[Blind groper]

To Seth


I forgot to mention the Bradley Manning case. An idealist who revealed the corruption in the US military and is now on trial for his life.

By telling the world of the corruption in the US government and the US military, this guy is likely to be executed.

Yeah. Riiiiiight.
The USA is the bastion of freedom!!!!!!

Like hell!

I will remain grateful that I live in NZ, a truly free nation.

[Collector1337]

To Seth


I forgot to mention the Bradley Manning case. An idealist who revealed the corruption in the US military and is now on trial for his life.

By telling the world of the corruption in the US government and the US military, this guy is likely to be executed.

Yeah. Riiiiiight.
The USA is the bastion of freedom!!!!!!

Like hell!

I will remain grateful that I live in NZ, a truly free nation.

But, I can own pistols, AR-15s, and AK-47s with any size magazine I want.

You can't do that. So, I'm more free.

What can you do, that I cannot?

[Collector1337]

I most definitely work on a team and individually. Having someone "in charge" is definitely not needed.

Most interesting, Collector. How long have you been a Marxist?

Marxist?

So, am I a left-winger or a right-winger, according to you?

[Seth]

To Seth


I forgot to mention the Bradley Manning case. An idealist who revealed the corruption in the US military and is now on trial for his life.

Damned right he is. They should have hung him by now because he admitted to treason.

By telling the world of the corruption in the US government and the US military, this guy is likely to be executed.

It was treason, nothing else.

Yeah. Riiiiiight.
The USA is the bastion of freedom!!!!!!

More so than any other nation.

Like hell!

I will remain grateful that I live in NZ, a truly free nation.

Until it's not. Then you're fucked.

[Seth]

Anyone got any idea when this argument will be laid to rest? - It's been going on for nearly 5 full threads now.
A ball-park figure will do.

When all hoplophobes are either dead or under close psychiatric observation in a secure facility.

[Seth]

Seth's comments are weird to me. Because he has never lived in a truly free country, he thinks what he has is superior.

Enjoy your fantasy, Seth.

Oh, I do, slave-boy. I do. I also enjoy going out whenever it pleases me to do so to shoot and blow shit up. Great fun!

As obviously blowing shit up is what freedom is all about

Yup. It's one of the things free people get to do. It's all my shit, and I can blow it up if I want to. Also helps if I should need to blow someone else's shit up.

You can't do that, so you're not free, slave-boy.

[Blind groper]

You can't do that, so you're not free, slave-boy.

Actually, I can do that as well, with the same end result as when you do it, since "blowing things up" except under specifically legally permitted circumstances, is illegal in both our countries, resulting in arrest in both places.

In fact, when I was younger, I did the "blowing things up" rather a lot. I was on a farm, and we were clearing old tree stumps, which involved gelignite and lots of big bangs. I loved it, but I knew how dangerous it was, and I was glad then, and now, that this activity is restricted.

In the same way, if I wanted a firearm, I could do the training, pass the test (apparently, it is about as difficult as getting a driver's licence), and get my gun licence, which would legally permit me to buy a sporting rifle or shotgun. The thing I could not do, which I am very glad about, is buy a hand gun. This keeps our murder rate to one fifth of the USA on a per capita basis.

[Collector1337]

You can't do that, so you're not free, slave-boy.

Actually, I can do that as well, with the same end result as when you do it, since "blowing things up" except under specifically legally permitted circumstances, is illegal in both our countries, resulting in arrest in both places.

In fact, when I was younger, I did the "blowing things up" rather a lot. I was on a farm, and we were clearing old tree stumps, which involved gelignite and lots of big bangs. I loved it, but I knew how dangerous it was, and I was glad then, and now, that this activity is restricted.

In the same way, if I wanted a firearm, I could do the training, pass the test (apparently, it is about as difficult as getting a driver's licence), and get my gun licence, which would legally permit me to buy a sporting rifle or shotgun. The thing I could not do, which I am very glad about, is buy a hand gun. This keeps our murder rate to one fifth of the USA on a per capita basis.

Have you considered that I don't want a fifth of your murder rate?

[JimC]

Collector 1337, this is a reminder that this post: http://www.rationalia.com/forum/viewtop ... 1#p1443621

is a personal attack in another member, which is in breach of our rules. Please desist in future.

[orpheus]

To Seth


I forgot to mention the Bradley Manning case. An idealist who revealed the corruption in the US military and is now on trial for his life.

By telling the world of the corruption in the US government and the US military, this guy is likely to be executed.

Yeah. Riiiiiight.
The USA is the bastion of freedom!!!!!!

Like hell!

I will remain grateful that I live in NZ, a truly free nation.

But, I can own pistols, AR-15s, and AK-47s with any size magazine I want.

You can't do that. So, I'm more free.

What can you do, that I cannot?

Well, I won't answer for BG in NZ, but in many countries (e.g. Scandinavia), the list includes: have your kids grow up in a safer and less violent place. Access excellent education for your kids - no matter who you are or where in the country you live. Have excellent health care no matter who you are. Enjoy a higher material standard of living.

Just some of the things Scandinavians can do that we in the States cannot.

[Collector1337]

Collector 1337, this is a reminder that this post: http://www.rationalia.com/forum/viewtop ... 1#p1443621

is a personal attack in another member, which is in breach of our rules. Please desist in future.

It's funny that "douche bag" is over the line, but being called a barbarian, Nazi, inbred, from a "swamp", uncivilized, gun loonie, gun nut, survivalist nut, etc. etc., not to mention the non-stop ethnocentrism, is just fine.

Hilarious.

[Collector1337]

To Seth


I forgot to mention the Bradley Manning case. An idealist who revealed the corruption in the US military and is now on trial for his life.

By telling the world of the corruption in the US government and the US military, this guy is likely to be executed.

Yeah. Riiiiiight.
The USA is the bastion of freedom!!!!!!

Like hell!

I will remain grateful that I live in NZ, a truly free nation.

But, I can own pistols, AR-15s, and AK-47s with any size magazine I want.

You can't do that. So, I'm more free.

What can you do, that I cannot?

Well, I won't answer for BG in NZ, but in many countries (e.g. Scandinavia), the list includes: have your kids grow up in a safer and less violent place.

Well, that's debatable, but that's not freedom. That's just your perception of feeling "safer and less violent." That doesn't have much to do with what prohibitionist laws there are.

Access excellent education for your kids - no matter who you are or where in the country you live.

Seems like your confusing freedom, with "free" as in don't have to pay for. Again, public school, which we also have, doesn't have anything to do with prohibitionist laws.

Have excellent health care no matter who you are.

Same thing again. What does this have to do with liberty? Freedom doesn't mean getting free stuff. Freedom is how restricted you are or not. It's not getting free stuff or being taken care of.

By the way, in my state, I also get free health care.

Enjoy a higher material standard of living.

That would be your perception.

So, it seems like, essentially, to you, being "free" means being taken care of apparently? Could you elaborate?

It seems like you have a pretty strange definition of what having liberty means.

Just some of the things Scandinavians can do that we in the States cannot.

You should try living here because that's a very misinformed and ignorant statement.

"Can do?"

You're not "doing" anything.

Getting something, is not "doing" something.

[orpheus]

To Seth


I forgot to mention the Bradley Manning case. An idealist who revealed the corruption in the US military and is now on trial for his life.

By telling the world of the corruption in the US government and the US military, this guy is likely to be executed.

Yeah. Riiiiiight.
The USA is the bastion of freedom!!!!!!

Like hell!

I will remain grateful that I live in NZ, a truly free nation.

But, I can own pistols, AR-15s, and AK-47s with any size magazine I want.

You can't do that. So, I'm more free.

What can you do, that I cannot?

Well, I won't answer for BG in NZ, but in many countries (e.g. Scandinavia), the list includes: have your kids grow up in a safer and less violent place.

Well, that's debatable, but that's not freedom. That's just your perception of feeling "safer and less violent." That's doesn't have much to do with what prohibitionist laws there are.

Access excellent education for your kids - no matter who you are or where in the country you live.

Seems like your confusing freedom, with "free" as in don't have to pay for. Again, public school, which we also have, doesn't have anything to do with prohibitionist laws.

Have excellent health care no matter who you are.

Same thing again. What does this have to do with liberty? Freedom doesn't mean getting free stuff. Freedom is how restricted you are or not. It's not getting free stuff or being taken care of.

By the way, in my state, I also get free health care.

Enjoy a higher material standard of living.

That would be your perception.

So, it seems like, essentially, to you, being "free" means being taken care of apparently? Could you elaborate?

It seems like you have a pretty strange definition of what having liberty means.

Just some of the things Scandinavians can do that we in the States cannot.

You should try living here because that's a very misinformed and ignorant statement.

"Can do?"

You're not "doing" anything.

Getting something, is not "doing" something.

First, Collector, I'm an American by birth and citizenship, but I've lived in many places, including almost a decade in Scandinavia. So my statements are not ignorant nor are they misinformed. The Nordic countries do have, by almost any standard you wish to use, a materially higher standard of living than the USA. Simple fact. I didn't believe it either until I experienced it myself.

Perhaps you should try living there before you make ignorant or misinformed statements.

Second, I'm not confusing "freedom" with "free". And of course I understand that all those things I mentioned are paid for with taxes. But they've set up their society so that accessing them are things they can do that we in the States can't, which is what you asked for examples of. Third, public schools there are far better on the whole than they are in the States. Fourth, they have a demonstrably lower crime rate (not, as you say, my "perception of feeling "safer and less violent."