No Nuclear Weapons = World War 3?

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Well was it really by proxy? Both sides seem to be pretty set on fucking up countries in their claimed domain which seemed to be edging towards their opponents ideology all across the globe and while often clandestine actors were used, the money and permission still came from governments. I see no difference between paying hired killers to kill or rounding up gullible citizens en masse to do the same thing.

Is it because it wasn't basically an open war of attrition in Europe that it's worth discounting do you think?

The war-by-proxy is a common theme in the history of the era and I agree with it. The US could face proxies, the Soviets could face proxies, but the US couldn't face the Soviets. Too much danger of things spiraling out of control too easily.

[Animavore]

I've often wondered if the World being at a nuclear, Mexican stand-off might actually bring World-peace?

[Gawdzilla Sama]

I've often wondered if the World being at a nuclear, Mexican stand-off might actually bring World-peace?

Continue?

[Audley Strange]

Well I mean more, imagine China, Russia, East Africa, The UAE and South America all went into a global conflict without "The White Guys" so to speak, do you think it would be classed as a World War or does it have to involve us?

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Well I mean more, imagine China, Russia, East Africa, The UAE and South America all went into a global conflict without "The White Guys" so to speak, do you think it would be classed as a World War or does it have to involve us?

A war on that scale would suck both sides in. But how does that come about?

[Animavore]

I've often wondered if the World being at a nuclear, Mexican stand-off might actually bring World-peace?

Continue?

That's it. If everyone has nuclear weapons trained on everyone they might all hesitate to use them.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

I've often wondered if the World being at a nuclear, Mexican stand-off might actually bring World-peace?

Continue?

That's it. If everyone has nuclear weapons trained on everyone they might all hesitate to use them.

MAD is exactly that.

[Audley Strange]

Well I mean more, imagine China, Russia, East Africa, The UAE and South America all went into a global conflict without "The White Guys" so to speak, do you think it would be classed as a World War or does it have to involve us?

A war on that scale would suck both sides in. But how does that come about?

Okay. East Africa has many valuable mineral resources that China and Russia are in currently in competition for (we are too but it's raw materials so it goes to the heavy industrial nations first). Some Islamists fuck up their operations in Uganda say, they send in troops to protect their interests. The Sudanese government gets tetchy, the UAE send support to the region. There are border skirmishes and some terrorist attacks in the region. some South American Government send in some diplomats who are executed as spies by an increasingly paranoid Chinese regime and are slowly pulled into the conflict.

We'd be pulled in probably, but if we weren't, if the Western Democracies stayed out would we hang the title "world" war on it? I don't know that we would.

[Jason]

... and I suspect that chemical weapons would have been used in quantity, unlike as with WW II, when countries were scared to use them for fear of retaliation in kind.

Does the use of white phosphorus count?

[klr]

... and I suspect that chemical weapons would have been used in quantity, unlike as with WW II, when countries were scared to use them for fear of retaliation in kind.

Does the use of white phosphorus count?

Very heavily used in WW II and afterwards, so obviously it was not regarded as the type of munition that would lead directly to say, nerve gas being used.

[Jason]

But it is a chemical weapon when used as one (not for dubious smoke screening). It causes second and third degree burns which incapacitate everyone caught in the cloud - incapacitating enemy combatants is more valuable than killing them because it uses up more enemy resources in having to care for them.

[klr]

But it is a chemical weapon when used as one (not for dubious smoke screening). It causes second and third degree burns which incapacitate everyone caught in the cloud - incapacitating enemy combatants is more valuable than killing them because it uses up more enemy resources in having to care for them.

I'm not sure if that's implying that all cases of smoke screen/marker user are "dubious", or just some of them are.

Anyway, it's a complex business, and there's no point in me trying to summarise or interpret what wiki has to say:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_phos ... egulations

[Jason]

I know, it's a legal loophole they've been debating for quite some time. It's been used as a chemical weapon in Vietnam, Iraq, and the Gaza strip, just to name three. Israel announced they'd no longer be using it a little over a month ago.

In regards to its use as a smokescreen/marker, there have been non-incendiary chemicals in use for at least 30 years now that are equally effective. There's really no excuse to use it.

[Rum]

I've often wondered if the World being at a nuclear, Mexican stand-off might actually bring World-peace?

Continue?

That's it. If everyone has nuclear weapons trained on everyone they might all hesitate to use them.

MAD is exactly that.

Trouble is it made everyone mad! 'Nuclear neurosis' as it was sometimes called was common - the fear of imminent nuclear war. It haunted me and many people I knew and every proxy war that flared up threatened to become a 'real' one - or we worried it might. It is easy to forget how horrible that all was. . And we really don't know if Mutually Assured Destruction was what actually prevented a nuclear exchange - or conventional war for that matter.

If it was the cause of a three decades long stalemate then perhaps it was worth it, but I can't see the same dynamic working with ten or twelve countries - or more - in possession of the means to annihilate an enemy, especially given the crazies who seem to be so desperate to get hold of them.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

@ Rum: Of course it made everyone mad. The whole situation was/is insane.

Re "Willy Pete". It a contact weapon, not a gas. Officially, anyway. :