-
mistermack
- Posts: 15093
- Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2010 10:57 am
- About me: Never rong.
-
Contact:
Post
by mistermack » Mon Jun 03, 2013 11:18 pm
FBM wrote:Punitive justice is an anachronism, anyway. It rests on the concept of free will, which is all but dead from a scientific point of view. When its death is officially announced, punitive justice should give way to therapeutic incarceration.
Maybe when they find a therapy that works, it might be worth a try. I won't hold my breath.
I have to admit though, that with 12 year olds, there might be a chance to change them.
While there is a market for shit, there will be assholes to supply it.
-
FBM
- Ratz' first Gritizen.
- Posts: 45327
- Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2009 12:43 pm
- About me: Skeptic. "Because it does not contend
It is therefore beyond reproach"
-
Contact:
Post
by FBM » Mon Jun 03, 2013 11:21 pm
mistermack wrote:FBM wrote:Punitive justice is an anachronism, anyway. It rests on the concept of free will, which is all but dead from a scientific point of view. When its death is officially announced, punitive justice should give way to therapeutic incarceration.
Maybe when they find a therapy that works, it might be worth a try. I won't hold my breath.
I have to admit though, that with 12 year olds, there might be a chance to change them.
Take away their Pokemons until they behave.
"A philosopher is a blind man in a dark room looking for a black cat that isn't there. A theologian is the man who finds it." ~ H. L. Mencken
"We ain't a sharp species. We kill each other over arguments about what happens when you die, then fail to see the fucking irony in that."
"It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions in favor of vegetarianism while the wolf remains of a different opinion."
-
mistermack
- Posts: 15093
- Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2010 10:57 am
- About me: Never rong.
-
Contact:
Post
by mistermack » Mon Jun 03, 2013 11:23 pm
FBM wrote:
Take away their Pokemons until they behave.
Or force them to wear boxing gloves in bed, till they play nice.
While there is a market for shit, there will be assholes to supply it.
-
Xamonas Chegwé
- Bouncer

- Posts: 50939
- Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 3:23 pm
- About me: I have prehensile eyebrows.
I speak 9 languages fluently, one of which other people can also speak.
When backed into a corner, I fit perfectly - having a right-angled arse.
- Location: Nottingham UK
-
Contact:
Post
by Xamonas Chegwé » Mon Jun 03, 2013 11:39 pm
Oh, and there has been no change in the law on trying juveniles in the UK since the James Bulger trial. The age of criminal responsibility is still 10 and children can still be tried as adults "in exceptional circumstances", as in the Bulger case. There was a call to raise the AoCR to 12 but this was rejected.
A book is a version of the world. If you do not like it, ignore it; or offer your own version in return.
Salman Rushdie
You talk to God, you're religious. God talks to you, you're psychotic.
House MD
Who needs a meaning anyway, I'd settle anyday for a very fine view.
Sandy Denny
This is the wrong forum for bluffing 
Paco
Yes, yes. But first I need to show you this venomous fish!
Calilasseia
I think we should do whatever Pawiz wants.
Twoflower
Bella squats momentarily then waddles on still peeing, like a horse
Millefleur
-
HomerJay
- Posts: 2512
- Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 9:06 pm
- Location: England
-
Contact:
Post
by HomerJay » Mon Jun 03, 2013 11:56 pm
mistermack wrote:Bella Fortuna wrote:Yep, no minors commit heinous crimes in the UK...
If they did, a 12 year old would be tried as a 12 year-old.
And getting a gun would be a hell of a lot harder for any 12 year old.
Age of responsibility is still 10 in the UK, there's a Bill in the Lords ATM to raise it.
Also juvenilles are under 21s in the UK, sentenced differently, rehabilated differently etc. Although they can marry, have kids, buy beer, drive cars much earlier.
So we have a few different levels of age of responsibility too.
-
mistermack
- Posts: 15093
- Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2010 10:57 am
- About me: Never rong.
-
Contact:
Post
by mistermack » Mon Jun 03, 2013 11:57 pm
Xamonas Chegwé wrote:Oh, and there has been no change in the law on trying juveniles in the UK since the James Bulger trial. The age of criminal responsibility is still 10 and children can still be tried as adults "in exceptional circumstances", as in the Bulger case. There was a call to raise the AoCR to 12 but this was rejected.
No need to change UK law. The law in the UK was effectively changed by the European Court of Human Rights in 1999, who ruled
.
These aspects were later criticised by the European Court of Human Rights, which ruled in 1999 that they had not received a fair trial by being tried in public in an adult court.[7].
That's from YOUR linked wiki article.
It also says :.
The two boys, by then aged 11, were found guilty of Bulger's murder at the Preston court on 24 November 1993, becoming the youngest convicted murderers of the 20th century
They were not a typical case.
While there is a market for shit, there will be assholes to supply it.
-
Gawdzilla Sama
- Stabsobermaschinist
- Posts: 151265
- Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 12:24 am
- About me: My posts are related to the thread in the same way Gliese 651b is related to your mother's underwear drawer.
- Location: Sitting next to Ayaan in Domus Draconis, and communicating via PMs.
-
Contact:
Post
by Gawdzilla Sama » Tue Jun 04, 2013 12:01 am
Yeahbutism.
Ein Ubootsoldat wrote:“Ich melde mich ab. Grüssen Sie bitte meine Kameraden.”
-
JimC
- The sentimental bloke
- Posts: 74305
- Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 7:58 am
- About me: To be serious about gin requires years of dedicated research.
- Location: Melbourne, Australia
-
Contact:
Post
by JimC » Tue Jun 04, 2013 12:29 am
Brian Peacock wrote:Xamonas Chegwé wrote:mistermack wrote:Bella Fortuna wrote:Yep, no minors commit heinous crimes in the UK...
If they did, a 12 year old would be tried as a 12 year-old.
The killers of James Bulger were both 10 years old at the time of the murder. They were tried as adults. Do try and get your facts straight for once!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Bulger#Trial
Indeed. Tried as adults, according to the same rigours principles of evidence and representation etc,
but sentenced as children.
And that is a fairly critical difference.
As was the extraordinary nature of their crime.
Minus the US bashing, I'm with MM on this one...
Nurse, where the fuck's my cardigan?
And my gin!
-
laklak
- Posts: 21022
- Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 1:07 pm
- About me: My preferred pronoun is "Massah"
- Location: Tannhauser Gate
-
Contact:
Post
by laklak » Tue Jun 04, 2013 1:34 am
Of course it could get shittier, we could elect a LibDem / Tory coalition.
Yeah well that's just, like, your opinion, man.
-
Audley Strange
- "I blame the victim"
- Posts: 7485
- Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2011 5:00 pm
-
Contact:
Post
by Audley Strange » Tue Jun 04, 2013 1:44 am
laklak wrote:Of course it could get shittier, we could elect a LibDem / Tory coalition.
Didn't you?

"What started as a legitimate effort by the townspeople of Salem to identify, capture and kill those who did Satan's bidding quickly deteriorated into a witch hunt" Army Man
-
laklak
- Posts: 21022
- Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 1:07 pm
- About me: My preferred pronoun is "Massah"
- Location: Tannhauser Gate
-
Contact:
Post
by laklak » Tue Jun 04, 2013 1:49 am
Nah, we elected a communist racist muslim terrorist Kenyan.
Yeah well that's just, like, your opinion, man.
-
Audley Strange
- "I blame the victim"
- Posts: 7485
- Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2011 5:00 pm
-
Contact:
Post
by Audley Strange » Tue Jun 04, 2013 1:54 am
laklak wrote:Nah, we elected a communist racist muslim terrorist Kenyan.
Groovy.
"What started as a legitimate effort by the townspeople of Salem to identify, capture and kill those who did Satan's bidding quickly deteriorated into a witch hunt" Army Man
-
pErvinalia
- On the good stuff
- Posts: 60981
- Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:08 pm
- About me: Spelling 'were' 'where'
- Location: dystopia
-
Contact:
Post
by pErvinalia » Tue Jun 04, 2013 2:23 am
mistermack wrote:Bella Fortuna wrote:Yep, no minors commit heinous crimes in the UK...
If they did, a 12 year old would be tried as a 12 year-old.
And getting a gun would be a hell of a lot harder for any 12 year old.
He has a point.
Sent from my penis using wankertalk.
"The Western world is fucking awesome because of mostly white men" - DaveDodo007.
"Socialized medicine is just exactly as morally defensible as gassing and cooking Jews" - Seth. Yes, he really did say that..
"Seth you are a boon to this community" - Cunt.
"I am seriously thinking of going on a spree killing" - Svartalf.
-
pErvinalia
- On the good stuff
- Posts: 60981
- Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:08 pm
- About me: Spelling 'were' 'where'
- Location: dystopia
-
Contact:
Post
by pErvinalia » Tue Jun 04, 2013 2:25 am
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:Arbitrary limits are arbitrary. The idea of "childhood" is really rather new.
Surely not at 12, though? A 12 year old simply doesn't have the reasoning abilities of an adult. Trying them as an adult is just wrong, no matter how heinous their crimes.
Sent from my penis using wankertalk.
"The Western world is fucking awesome because of mostly white men" - DaveDodo007.
"Socialized medicine is just exactly as morally defensible as gassing and cooking Jews" - Seth. Yes, he really did say that..
"Seth you are a boon to this community" - Cunt.
"I am seriously thinking of going on a spree killing" - Svartalf.
-
pErvinalia
- On the good stuff
- Posts: 60981
- Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:08 pm
- About me: Spelling 'were' 'where'
- Location: dystopia
-
Contact:
Post
by pErvinalia » Tue Jun 04, 2013 2:30 am
Warren Dew wrote:Seabass wrote:What is the point of making these distinctions between childhood and adulthood, if the courts are going to ignore the distinctions? This whole business of trying children as adults has always seemed bizarre to me.
The whole idea of trying children as children has always seemed bizarre to me. Like, the victim doesn't really die if the murderer is cute?
Silly point. The idea is surely centred around rehabilitation, isn't it? A child, particularly given the fact that they can't reason like normal adults can, is going to be much more a product of its immediate environment than an experienced and reasoning adult. I.e. They have diminished responsibility. And they also probably have a better opportunity to change their ways than an adult with entrenched views of the world.
This probably gets back to the distinction between a justice system that aims to rehabilitate and punish, as opposed to just punish. It seems that the American system more so than other western systems is focussed more so on punishment than rehabilitation.

Sent from my penis using wankertalk.
"The Western world is fucking awesome because of mostly white men" - DaveDodo007.
"Socialized medicine is just exactly as morally defensible as gassing and cooking Jews" - Seth. Yes, he really did say that..
"Seth you are a boon to this community" - Cunt.
"I am seriously thinking of going on a spree killing" - Svartalf.
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 28 guests