Guess What - We're ALL Catholics!

[Hermit]

Isn't this a sort of reverse Pascal's wager?

Excellent point.

[Svartalf]

except it holds water a lot better than old Blaise's argument... it's an actual encouragement to do good and not mind the rest, rather than living in perpetual fear of having chosen the wrong religion.

[Animavore]

I've never stopped being a Catholic*.










* Apparently according to everyone else.

[rachelbean]

I'm actually impressed a little. It's what most Orthodox Christians are taught, and while the idea that we need saving at all is not something I agree with, when I did believe it, the idea that everyone was already saved was a beautiful one:
http://orthodoxwiki.org/Apocatastasis

Reminds me of my favourite Paschal homily (by St. John Chrysostom):

If anyone is devout and a lover of God, let them enjoy this beautiful and radiant festival.
If anyone is a grateful servant, let them, rejoicing, enter into the joy of his Lord.
If anyone has wearied themselves in fasting, let them now receive recompense.
If anyone has labored from the first hour, let them today receive the just reward.
If anyone has come at the third hour, with thanksgiving let them feast.
If anyone has arrived at the sixth hour, let them have no misgivings; for they shall suffer no loss.
If anyone has delayed until the ninth hour, let them draw near without hesitation.
If anyone has arrived even at the eleventh hour, let them not fear on account of tardiness.
For the Master is gracious and receives the last even as the first; He gives rest to him that comes at the eleventh hour, just as to him who has labored from the first.
He has mercy upon the last and cares for the first; to the one He gives, and to the other He is gracious.
He both honors the work and praises the intention.
Enter all of you, therefore, into the joy of our Lord, and, whether first or last, receive your reward.
O rich and poor, one with another, dance for joy!
O you ascetics and you negligent, celebrate the day!
You that have fasted and you that have disregarded the fast, rejoice today!
The table is rich-laden: feast royally, all of you!
The calf is fatted: let no one go forth hungry!
Let all partake of the feast of faith. Let all receive the riches of goodness.
Let no one lament their poverty, for the universal kingdom has been revealed.
Let no one mourn their transgressions, for pardon has dawned from the grave.
Let no one fear death, for the Saviour's death has set us free.
He that was taken by death has annihilated it!
He descended into Hades and took Hades captive!
He embittered it when it tasted His flesh! And anticipating this, Isaiah exclaimed: "Hades was embittered when it encountered Thee in the lower regions".
It was embittered, for it was abolished!
It was embittered, for it was mocked!
It was embittered, for it was purged!
It was embittered, for it was despoiled!
It was embittered, for it was bound in chains!
It took a body and came upon God!
It took earth and encountered Ηeaven!
It took what it saw, but crumbled before what it had not seen!
O death, where is thy sting?
O Hades, where is thy victory?
Christ is risen, and you are overthrown!
Christ is risen, and the demons are fallen!
Christ is risen, and the angels rejoice!
Christ is risen, and life reigns!
Christ is risen, and not one dead remains in a tomb!
For Christ, being raised from the dead, has become the first-fruits of them that have slept.
To Him be glory and might unto the ages of ages.
Amen.

[cronus]

The dark side is well hidden with this new Pope.

[Svartalf]

Not everyone is gifted with being a Mc Diarmaid lookalike.

[rachelbean]

except it holds water a lot better than old Blaise's argument... it's an actual encouragement to do good and not mind the rest, rather than living in perpetual fear of having chosen the wrong religion.

Exactly. When I was a christian and learned orthodox doctrine, I didn't think for a second to start behaving any differently because there was no hell to worry about. It made (in my mind at the time) God more kind and merciful and someone I wanted to be in the presence of despite the fact that I didn't have to do anything to 'earn' it. Of course realizing he wasn't real made me give up the deal all together, but I don't regret that part of time I spent as a believer.

[MiM]

I am definitely with JimC, Svarty and Rachel here. If rhetoric like that can help a billion Catholics to see atheists a little more like good fellow humans and a little less like lost cases, that would have a real impact. And for the better, I believe.

No need to react overly aggressively or ironically on that one.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Now will somebody try to get the fucking Baptists to make sense, please?

[Svartalf]

Only way for them to do that is after getting them martyred.

[Mysturji]

Now will somebody try to get the fucking Baptists to make sense, please?

I doubt it.
I mean, there's no way I'd ever consider being "born again" unless it involved a vagina.

[charlou]

I am definitely with JimC, Svarty and Rachel here. If rhetoric like that can help a billion Catholics to see atheists a little more like good fellow humans and a little less like lost cases, that would have a real impact. And for the better, I believe.

It may even lead to some acknowledgement of cherry picking ideology according to the zeitgeist .. ie, the tenets of catholocism are in fact not tenets, but social ethics and practices evolving just as all aspects of human culture have and do.

[klr]

We've come a long way from "all Protestants* are going to hell", which was still a commonplace attitude 40 years ago here in "Catholic" Ireland, if not exactly shouted from the rooftops.

*Never mind anything North, South, East or West of that ...

[JimC]

We've come a long way from "all Protestants* are going to hell", which was still a commonplace attitude 40 years ago here in "Catholic" Ireland, if not exactly shouted from the rooftops.

*Never mind anything North, South, East or West of that ...

"Especially those Protestant Atheists!"

[Hermit]

We've come a long way from "all Protestants* are going to hell", which was still a commonplace attitude 40 years ago here in "Catholic" Ireland, if not exactly shouted from the rooftops.

*Never mind anything North, South, East or West of that ...

That reminds me of a story I heard at that time. An Irish school teacher asked each of his students what they want to become when they are grown up. When Colleen piped up that she wanted to become a prostitute, the teacher yelled "WHAT?" The girl calmly repeated: "When I'm grown up I want to become a prostitute." "Oh, that's alright," the teacher said with palpable relief. "I thought you said you wanted to become a protestant."