Guns Because

Guns don't kill threads; Ratz kill threads!
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Jason
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Re: Guns Because

Post by Jason » Thu May 09, 2013 3:45 am

Collector1337 wrote:
Blind groper wrote:To Collector,
Who believes his gun ownership increases survival.

Sorry mate. The stats show that homes with a gun present have a higher rate of fatal shootings. Owning a gun reduces your survival chances, though admittedly by only a small degree.

Living in a country with very few hand guns, increases chances of survival a lot more.

My country has an average lifespan of 81, compared to yours of only 79.
I don't just "believe" gun ownership increases my survival, I KNOW it increases my survival as I'd be dead otherwise.
Hardly. For instance, if I wanted you dead you'd die. You wouldn't even have the chance to haul out your pathetic little AR-15.. though you may have time to orgasm over it as you bleed out. :lol:


Seriously though.. you'd be dead before you knew it. Keep looking for those black choppers buddeh.

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Re: Guns Because

Post by Blind groper » Thu May 09, 2013 4:42 am

To Collector, who called me a stat whore.

Thank you.

I appreciate the fact that you recognise my interest in real data rather than anecdotes or crazy opinions. I feel very flattered.

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Re: Guns Because

Post by Jason » Thu May 09, 2013 4:45 am

And as for you Blind Groper.. you live in your paradisaical grotto on the sea completely detached from the facts on the ground. What do you know about this subject besides what you read on your screen?

Nah.. you're cool.

I like your pics of seals and stuff.


..but you don't know shit.


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Re: Guns Because

Post by Seth » Thu May 09, 2013 5:07 am

tattuchu wrote:Anne fucking Coulter? Jesus fuck. Collector, you may be an insane demented retarded gunnut phucktard, but even you can't be that fucking stupid as to take anything Anne Coulter says seriously :what: :what: :what:
You care to disprove anything she says with credible countervailing facts, or are you just assuming she's not credible because you don't like her message, style or politics?
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"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke

"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth

© 2013/2014/2015/2016 Seth, all rights reserved. No reuse, republication, duplication, or derivative work is authorized.

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Re: Guns Because

Post by Jason » Thu May 09, 2013 5:09 am

Image

:funny:

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Re: Guns Because

Post by Blind groper » Thu May 09, 2013 8:44 am

To Fakuname

Your 'insults' do not worry me since you are the perfect democrat, insulting everyone equally. No offense taken.

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Re: Guns Because

Post by JimC » Thu May 09, 2013 8:50 am

Collector 1337 wrote:

...This is what Seth is talking about when he says, "an armed society is a polite society."...
No he isn't, and neither are you.

It is a bullshit macho threat, saying "walk softly around me, boy, or I'll blow your ass away"

Typical bullying tactics of aggressive, weapon loving gun fanatics...
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Re: Guns Because

Post by Collector1337 » Thu May 09, 2013 9:01 am

JimC wrote:
Collector 1337 wrote:

...This is what Seth is talking about when he says, "an armed society is a polite society."...
No he isn't, and neither are you.

It is a bullshit macho threat, saying "walk softly around me, boy, or I'll blow your ass away"

Typical bullying tactics of aggressive, weapon loving gun fanatics...
You couldn't be more wrong.
"To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize."

"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free."

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Re: Guns Because

Post by JimC » Thu May 09, 2013 9:02 am

Collector1337 wrote:
JimC wrote:
Collector 1337 wrote:

...This is what Seth is talking about when he says, "an armed society is a polite society."...
No he isn't, and neither are you.

It is a bullshit macho threat, saying "walk softly around me, boy, or I'll blow your ass away"

Typical bullying tactics of aggressive, weapon loving gun fanatics...
You couldn't be more wrong.
No, I couldn't be more right...
Nurse, where the fuck's my cardigan?
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Re: Guns Because

Post by Jason » Thu May 09, 2013 6:36 pm

Blind groper wrote:To Fakuname

Your 'insults' do not worry me since you are the perfect democrat, insulting everyone equally. No offense taken.
Just a bit of mostly good natured drunken trolling. :td:

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Re: Guns Because

Post by Seth » Thu May 09, 2013 7:42 pm

JimC wrote:
Collector 1337 wrote:

...This is what Seth is talking about when he says, "an armed society is a polite society."...
No he isn't, and neither are you.

It is a bullshit macho threat, saying "walk softly around me, boy, or I'll blow your ass away"

Typical bullying tactics of aggressive, weapon loving gun fanatics...
Yes, I am talking about that. Bullies bully the weak because they know they won't get hurt. That's why bullies don't bully the strong. The thing about a pistol is that it makes the nerdy weakling and the 90 year old grandmother stronger than the bully.

This is a fact that hoplophobes like you are simply incapable of comprehending; that most people aren't Kung Fu experts so they need arms to defend themselves against those who would do them harm.

As for an armed society being a polite society, this is true because in general those who seek to victimize or bully others are far less likely to do so when they know their victim may be armed and may shoot them dead. In the "old west" the number of notorious gunslinging cold-blooded killers was quite small. Small enough that they have entered legend. The vast majority of the west was, absent Indian wars, a pretty peaceful place, where people lived their lives with guns and without worrying much about thugs victimizing them. There are notable exceptions it's true, like Deadwood, but even Deadwood became a peaceful place to live once it became more than just a mining camp.

What scares hoplophobes like you so much about law-abiding citizens like me is that you can't imagine that someone could walk around armed every day and resist the urge to shoot someone that you seem to think possession of a firearm triggers,

One hundred and fifty million people prove that your knee-jerk psychoanalysis of everybody who is not like you is defective.

In point of fact, it is the hoplophobes who are mentally unbalanced. They are typically mired in paranoia and shiver in fear of things they should be feeling very secure and safe about. They all need serious mental health counseling to deal with all that fear and angst that cripples them.
"Seth is Grandmaster Zen Troll who trains his victims to troll themselves every time they think of him" Robert_S

"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke

"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth

© 2013/2014/2015/2016 Seth, all rights reserved. No reuse, republication, duplication, or derivative work is authorized.

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Re: Guns Because

Post by Blind groper » Thu May 09, 2013 8:12 pm

Amazing, Seth, how you brazenly ignore inconvenient facts. Like your last statement about the wild west. We covered this in an earlier discussion and showed, from official statistics, that the homicide rate was many times higher than it is today. More guns meant more deaths, as it still does today.

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Re: Guns Because

Post by JimC » Thu May 09, 2013 9:54 pm

tattuchu, this post: http://rationalia.com/forum/viewtopic.p ... 6#p1425336
contains a personal attack on another member, which is against forum rules. Please desist in future.
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Re: Guns Because

Post by Seth » Fri May 10, 2013 12:13 am

Blind groper wrote:Amazing, Seth, how you brazenly ignore inconvenient facts. Like your last statement about the wild west. We covered this in an earlier discussion and showed, from official statistics, that the homicide rate was many times higher than it is today. More guns meant more deaths, as it still does today.
Nope.
...However, even in a cattle town like Abilene, Kan., the murder rate was much lower than in most modern American cities. Larry Schweikart, a historian at the University of Dayton, estimates that there were probably fewer than a dozen bank robberies in the entire period from 1859 through 1900 in all the frontier West. Schweikart summarizes: "The record is shockingly clear: There are more bank robberies in modern-day Dayton, Ohio, in a year than there were in the entire Old West in a decade, perhaps in the entire frontier period!"
Source: http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepubli ... l0717.html
With all this talk of “The Wild West”, I thought it might be informative to look at the reality of crime in the “wild west” cattle towns and compare them to the peaceful streets of such eastern, gun-control paradises as DC, New York, Baltimore and
Newark.

In his book, Frontier Violence: Another Look, author W. Eugene Hollon, provides us with these astonishing facts:

In Abilene, Ellsworth, Wichita, Dodge City, and
Caldwell, for the years from 1870 to 1885, there were only 45 total homicides. This equates to a rate of approximately 1 murder per 100,000 residents per year.
In
Abilene, supposedly one of the wildest of the cow towns, not a single person was killed in 1869 or 1870.

Zooming forward over a century to 2007, a quick look at Uniform Crime Report statistics shows us the following regarding the aforementioned gun control “paradise” cities of the east:

DC – 183 Murders (31 per 100,000 residents)

New York – 494 Murders (6 per 100,000 residents)

Baltimore – 281 Murders (45 per 100,000 residents)

Newark – 104 Murders (37 per 100,000 residents)



It doesn’t take an advanced degree in statistics to see that a return to “wild west” levels of violent crime would be a huge improvement for the residents of these cities.

The truth of the matter is that the “wild west” wasn’t wild at all … not compared to a Saturday night in
Newark. Source: http://www.examiner.com/article/dispell ... -wild-west
Gun Control: Myths and Realities
By
David Lampo
May 13, 2000
The number of well-publicized public shootings during the past few years, especially the tragedy at Columbine High School, has re-energized the gun control movement. As a show of strength, a coalition of gun control groups has organized a “Million Mom March” to be held in Washington, D.C. on Mother’s Day, an event designed to stir up emotions rather than promote rational thought. And when one looks at the facts about gun control, it’s easy to see why the anti-gun lobby relies on emotion rather than logic to make its case.

Think you know the facts about gun control? If your only source of information is the mainstream media, what you think you know may not be correct. Take the quiz below and test your knowledge.

1. Thousands of children die annually in gun accidents.

False. Gun accidents involving children are actually at record lows, although you wouldn’t know it from listening to the mainstream media. In 1997, the last year for which data are available, only 142 children under 15 years of age died in gun accidents, and the total number of gun-related deaths for this age group was 642. More children die each year in accidents involving bikes, space heaters or drownings. The often repeated claim that 12 children per day die from gun violence includes “children” up to 20 years of age, the great majority of whom are young adult males who die in gang-related violence.

2. Gun shows are responsible for a large number of firearms falling into the hands of criminals.

False. Contrary to President Clinton’s claims, there is no “gun show loophole.” All commercial arms dealers at gun shows must run background checks, and the only people exempt from them are the small number of non-commercial sellers. According to the U.S. Department of Justice, at most 2 percent of guns used by criminals are purchased at gun shows, and most of those were purchased legally by people who passed background checks.

3. The tragedy at Columbine High School a year ago illustrates the deficiencies of current gun control laws.

False. Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold violated close to 20 firearms laws in amassing their cache of weapons (not to mention the law against murder), so it seems rather dubious to argue that additional laws might have prevented this tragedy. The two shotguns and rifle used by Harris and Klebold were purchased by a girlfriend who would have passed a background check, and the TEC-9 handgun used by them was already illegal.

4. States that allow registered citizens to carry concealed weapons have lower crime rates than those that don’t.

True. The 31 states that have “shall issue” laws allowing private citizens to carry concealed weapons have, on average, a 24 percent lower violent crime rate, a 19 percent lower murder rate and a 39 percent lower robbery rate than states that forbid concealed weapons. In fact, the nine states with the lowest violent crime rates are all right-to-carry states. Remarkably, guns are used for self-defense more than 2 million times a year, three to five times the estimated number of violent crimes committed with guns.

5. Waiting periods lower crime rates.

False. Numerous studies have been conducted on the effects of waiting periods, both before and after the federal Brady bill was passed in 1993. Those studies consistently show that there is no correlation between waiting periods and murder or robbery rates. Florida State University professor Gary Kleck analyzed data from every U.S. city with a population over 100,000 and found that waiting periods had no statistically significant effect. Even University of Maryland anti-gun researcher David McDowell found that “waiting periods have no influence on either gun homicides or gun suicides.”

6. Lower murder rates in foreign countries prove that gun control works.

False. This is one of the favorite arguments of gun control proponents, and yet the facts show that there is simply no correlation between gun control laws and murder or suicide rates across a wide spectrum of nations and cultures. In Israel and Switzerland, for example, a license to possess guns is available on demand to every law-abiding adult, and guns are easily obtainable in both nations. Both countries also allow widespread carrying of concealed firearms, and yet, admits Dr. Arthur Kellerman, one of the foremost medical advocates of gun control, Switzerland and Israel “have rates of homicide that are low despite rates of home firearm ownership that are at least as high as those in the United States.” A comparison of crime rates within Europe reveals no correlation between access to guns and crime.

The basic premise of the gun control movement, that easy access to guns causes higher crime, is contradicted by the facts, by history and by reason. Let’s hope more people are catching on.
Source: http://www.cato.org/publications/commen ... -realities
...Although bank holdups are probably the form of robbery, after stagecoach holdups, most popularly associated with the frontier West, none of the several banks that operated in Aurora and Bodie ever experienced a robbery attempt. Bankers went about armed, as did their employees, and (p.123) robbers, like the highwaymen who avoided the guarded bullion stages, evidently were not willing to tangle with armed men.

Individual private citizens in Bodie and Aurora very rarely suffered from robbery. There were only ten robberies and three attempted robberies of individuals—other than those robbed as part of a stage holdup—in Bodie during its boom years, and there seem to have been even fewer in Aurora during its heyday. In nearly every one of these robberies the circumstances were so similar as to be interchangeable: The robbery victim had spent the evening in a gambling den, saloon, or brothel; he had revealed in some way that he had on his person a tidy sum of money; and he was drunk, staggering toward home late at night when the attack occurred.

More robberies might have occurred if Aurorans and Bodieites had not gone about armed and ready to fight. They were, unless staggering drunk, simply too dangerous to rob.... Source: http://www.guncite.com/wild_west_myth.html
I could go on, but there's really no need. Your claims are false. It's just that simple.

More guns, less crime. That's what's been happening in the US for two decades now and murders and violent crime are down, a lot.

Inconvenient for you, but well, there it is.
"Seth is Grandmaster Zen Troll who trains his victims to troll themselves every time they think of him" Robert_S

"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke

"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth

© 2013/2014/2015/2016 Seth, all rights reserved. No reuse, republication, duplication, or derivative work is authorized.

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Re: Guns Because

Post by Blind groper » Fri May 10, 2013 9:37 am

To Seth

Amazing how NRA propaganda and John Lott bullshit keeps getting quoted as if it were true. It is not.

There is a big difference between truth and bulldust. If you stick to reputable sources, instead of internet crap sources, you will report accurately. Sadly, you do not.

The wild west, as reported earlier had a homicide rate of 25 per 100, 000 people per year. More than 6 fold greater than today, and due to more guns.

All states in the USA have as many guns as its people want. Local laws mean nothing when you just need to pop across the state border to buy whatever guns you wish. So the murder rate, state by state, is just whatever number of murderous assholes there are. Nothing to do with state law since anyone who wants a gun gets one.

Most gun murders, according to FBI figures are two guys arguing. When one loses his temper, he snatches his gun and kills the other. Just that simple. The easy way to reduce this toll is to cut the number of hand guns.

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