First fully 3D printed gun now exists

[Wumbologist]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygreenbe ... un-photos/

It might not be much yet, but 3D printing is still in its infancy and this is already possible.

Tell me again how gun control will stop criminals from owning guns, as the technology to print one in the comfort of your own home becomes better and cheaper every day.

[JacksSmirkingRevenge]

That didn't take long.

[Jason]

First - control the ammunition.

Second - Want to go on a killing spree with an all plastic gun? I don't. The .22 short it is pictured with might be safe enough, but forget any high powered cartridge.

[Wumbologist]

First - control the ammunition.

Second - Want to go on a killing spree with an all plastic gun? I don't. The .22 short it is pictured with might be safe enough, but forget any high powered cartridge.

Ammunition control is even harder in the US than gun control, tons of ammo out there already, tons of reloading equipment, the basic materials are easily obtained. .. Not gonna happen.

As far as this goes, yes, this first step is only 22 short. As the technology improves I have no doubt larger calibers will be possible. This is a proof of concept that shows the futility of gun control.

[MrJonno]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygreenbe ... un-photos/

It might not be much yet, but 3D printing is still in its infancy and this is already possible.

Tell me again how gun control will stop criminals from owning guns, as the technology to print one in the comfort of your own home becomes better and cheaper every day.

Since there are plenty of restrictions on printing things in 2d (ie the written word) , you just extend them to 3d. Restrictions on child porn, state secrets, libel etc are reasonable effective

[Jason]

Well any machinist worth his salt could make a more useable firearm in a machine shop, but being able to manufacture gunpowders and primers is another matter (reloading supplies would be controlled as well - you can reload the same casing.. 3 maybe 4 times?).

What a clever person could do is make perfectly accurate molds using a 3d printer to cast parts using steel in a backyard forge (easy things to setup). Other parts, such as the barrel, are easily turned in a machine shop. The carrier, the bolt assembly.. All feasible. Of course, it would be extremely hard to hide a sizeable operation - you'd have to make it an after-hours affair in a legitimate machine shop.

..but I digress. Ammunition is much easier to control, especially given the ratio of expenditure between ammunition and firearms.

[Tyrannical]

Well any machinist worth his salt could make a more useable firearm in a machine shop, but being able to manufacture gunpowders and primers is another matter (reloading supplies would be controlled as well - you can reload the same casing.. 3 maybe 4 times?).

What a clever person could do is make perfectly accurate molds using a 3d printer to cast parts using steel in a backyard forge (easy things to setup). Other parts, such as the barrel, are easily turned in a machine shop. The carrier, the bolt assembly.. All feasible. Of course, it would be extremely hard to hide a sizeable operation - you'd have to make it an after-hours affair in a legitimate machine shop.

..but I digress. Ammunition is much easier to control, especially given the ratio of expenditure between ammunition and firearms.

Ammunition would be impossible to control. How many bullets are used in illegal activity? A very,very tiny percentage. Even if carefully regulated people could bring a few empty brass casings to swap out with live ammo and pretend that they fired all they were issued. You can't trace ammo to an individual like you can a gun, and even if only the police and military had easy access each of them uses several hundred rounds a year to re-qualify with their weapon.

Why not just support execution for use of a gun in a crime? Since behavior is heavily influenced by genetics, that would be the rational eugenics reason.

[Jason]

The problem with that is it's incredibly hard to reuse primers already set in a casing.

But what I was really getting at is controlling ammunition sales through licensing (which would involve all the stuff a lot of gun people hate like psych profiling, etc.). New ammunition could have an identifying serial number stamped into the primer pocket which would be useful for forensics in identifying the point of sale and purchaser of said ammunition and would be extremely unlikely to be filed off as it would require a complete reload, be very time consuming, and possibly damage the casing. Or perhaps laser etched on the interior of the casing - that would be very reliable and solve the reloader problem, but add to the cost of new ammunition and require manufacturers to add another step (and some expensive equipment) to their process.

Old brass can only be reloaded a few times before it becomes dangerous, so in time all ammunition would be traceable. This would make it much more difficult for criminals to get ammunition as they would either have to pass the rigorous checks to obtain a license or obtain their ammo from another source who could be held criminally liable if their ammo was found used in a murder. Thus legislating institutionalized responsibility.

Of course, that would never happen.

[JacksSmirkingRevenge]

First - control the ammunition.

Second - Want to go on a killing spree with an all plastic gun? I don't. The .22 short it is pictured with might be safe enough, but forget any high powered cartridge.

.22LR is plenty enough to kill someone at close range. Indeed, I think I read somewhere (can't remember where) that it is the calibre of choice for a lot of Mafia (etc.) assassins because it's very easy to silence.
The plans for the device above could easily be modified to include a built in suppressor I think, and in many ways it would be the perfect tool for the job...just burn it after use.
Sinister shit, when one thinks about it.

[Jason]

.22LR yes. That is a .22 short - maybe %25 more power than an air rifle.

[Blind groper]

The usual argument presented by gun lovers as to why gun control will not work, is that criminals will not obey the laws. So, if we ban hand guns, criminals will get them anyway - in this case by 3D printing.

Well, the latest American Skeptic magazine has an article on gun control, and it quotes official FBI figures. It turns out that all felony related firearms murders is less than 3,000 (for the year 2009). That is less than 25% of the murders carried out in that year. Of the rest, about 3,500 murders came from simple (though emotional) arguments between two people who were not listed as criminals. Two people, usually young men, get into a potent and powerful, possibly screaming, argument. One of them, when his anger is hot enough, pulls out a gun and shoots the other one dead. That simple cause outnumbers all felony related murders put together.

In other words, if we make hand guns illegal, and non criminals obey, the hand gun murder rate will drop massively even if felony related murders continue unabated.

[orpheus]

The usual argument presented by gun lovers as to why gun control will not work, is that criminals will not obey the laws. So, if we ban hand guns, criminals will get them anyway - in this case by 3D printing.

Well, the latest American Skeptic magazine has an article on gun control, and it quotes official FBI figures. It turns out that all felony related firearms murders is less than 3,000 (for the year 2009). That is less than 25% of the murders carried out in that year. Of the rest, about 3,500 murders came from simple (though emotional) arguments between two people who were not listed as criminals. Two people, usually young men, get into a potent and powerful, possibly screaming, argument. One of them, when his anger is hot enough, pulls out a gun and shoots the other one dead. That simple cause outnumbers all felony related murders put together.

In other words, if we make hand guns illegal, and non criminals obey, the hand gun murder rate will drop massively even if felony related murders continue unabated.

That's a really interesting point. Will be interesting to see the reaction from the pro-gun faction. (I can guess.)

[JimC]

The usual argument presented by gun lovers as to why gun control will not work, is that criminals will not obey the laws. So, if we ban hand guns, criminals will get them anyway - in this case by 3D printing.

Well, the latest American Skeptic magazine has an article on gun control, and it quotes official FBI figures. It turns out that all felony related firearms murders is less than 3,000 (for the year 2009). That is less than 25% of the murders carried out in that year. Of the rest, about 3,500 murders came from simple (though emotional) arguments between two people who were not listed as criminals. Two people, usually young men, get into a potent and powerful, possibly screaming, argument. One of them, when his anger is hot enough, pulls out a gun and shoots the other one dead. That simple cause outnumbers all felony related murders put together.

In other words, if we make hand guns illegal, and non criminals obey, the hand gun murder rate will drop massively even if felony related murders continue unabated.

That's a really interesting point. Will be interesting to see the reaction from the pro-gun faction. (I can guess.)

Will it involve prising guns from their cold, dead hands?

[Seth]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygreenbe ... un-photos/

It might not be much yet, but 3D printing is still in its infancy and this is already possible.

Tell me again how gun control will stop criminals from owning guns, as the technology to print one in the comfort of your own home becomes better and cheaper every day.

Since there are plenty of restrictions on printing things in 2d (ie the written word) , you just extend them to 3d. Restrictions on child porn, state secrets, libel etc are reasonable effective

They are? That explains the on-line kiddie porn market how, exactly? Or the illegal drug/gun/pick-your-contraband markets?

Are you really that dense?

[MrJonno]

It explains how those things are relatively difficult to get hold of, and keeping printed non-encrypted digital kiddie porn is no good for a future free paedo career.

Unrestricted 3d printers is only a problem if you believe in unrestricted free speech, I don't in fact I don't believe in unrestricted free anything