Is Swarthy derogatory?
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Audley Strange
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Is Swarthy derogatory?
What do you think? I've not been able to find a consensus, even in Strange Towers. The good lady (and others) seem to see it as being a positive descriptor, for example "The swarthy Italian" to them means a degree of sophistication,with sexual overtones and thus actually complimentary. Whereas to me (and others) the connotation is offensive meaning almost entirely the opposite, shifty, untrustworthy, greasy even.
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odysseus
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Re: Is Swarthy derogatory?
Swarthy just means dark, doesn't it? I guess it will be considered derogatory by anyone who has an investment in calling it derogatory.... 
Re: Is Swarthy derogatory?
Go and ask on apelust
Outside the ordered universe is that amorphous blight of nethermost confusion which blasphemes and bubbles at the center of all infinity—the boundless daemon sultan Azathoth, whose name no lips dare speak aloud, and who gnaws hungrily in inconceivable, unlighted chambers beyond time and space amidst the muffled, maddening beating of vile drums and the thin monotonous whine of accursed flutes.
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Re: Is Swarthy derogatory?
Elif air ab dinikh wrote:Go and ask on apelust
Yes. Please do.
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Re: Is Swarthy derogatory?
Uhm... it (in my mind) is associated with "outdoorsy" type men. Those with dark/tanned complexions, who "work the field" rather than "push the pen". I can't see it being a negative, unless you introduce the idea of the class system (by which anyone who is "swarthy" is, by definition, inferior).
Or perhaps it is a hang-up from the Days of Empire(tm), when swarthy people were generally the ones with spears who should jolly well behave themselves if they didn't want to be shot... old bean.
Or perhaps it is a hang-up from the Days of Empire(tm), when swarthy people were generally the ones with spears who should jolly well behave themselves if they didn't want to be shot... old bean.
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Audley Strange
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Re: Is Swarthy derogatory?
Techically, yes. Paki is just an abbreviation of Pakistani, however it has derogatory connotations. I don't have any investment in it being derogatory, in fact, it was because I was reticent in using it as a descriptor at all that lead to this.odysseus wrote:Swarthy just means dark, doesn't it? I guess it will be considered derogatory by anyone who has an investment in calling it derogatory....
Also.
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Re: Is Swarthy derogatory?
Yeah, I always take it as a way to say dark and sexy, or rustic and sexy. I'd never think of it as an insult
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Re: Is Swarthy derogatory?
Whenever I've encountered it, it's been more of a neutral descriptor. I think if you interpret it as negative, positive, sexy, whatever, it's something you or the author is bringing to the table, not the word.
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Re: Is Svarty derogatory?
I guess it depends in what context it's used. I've always considered it mildly derogatory. Yeah, dark, greasy, dirty. But I see, after looking it up, that it just means having a dark complexion. Of course, to someone like my father, it's the same thing. To him, anyone with dark skin is a nigger 
As for my own erroneous understanding of the word, I wonder where that came from? Am I unconsciously racist? Do I automatically associate dark skin with being dirty and greasy? I should hope not. But what goes on in my unconscious mind is, I'm afraid, outside my control. There could be a latent racist lurking in there somewhere, as distasteful as that is to my conscious mind.
As for my own erroneous understanding of the word, I wonder where that came from? Am I unconsciously racist? Do I automatically associate dark skin with being dirty and greasy? I should hope not. But what goes on in my unconscious mind is, I'm afraid, outside my control. There could be a latent racist lurking in there somewhere, as distasteful as that is to my conscious mind.
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Audley Strange
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Re: Is Svarty derogatory?
I think you need to relax a bit. As pointed some people see it as neutral others have positive or negative connotations. My parents were not casually bigoted, they were the type to pull people up about such. PC before the term was popular so to speak, but I've always, as I said, assumed a negative derogatory connotation to it.tattuchu wrote:I guess it depends in what context it's used. I've always considered it mildly derogatory. Yeah, dark, greasy, dirty. But I see, after looking it up, that it just means having a dark complexion. Of course, to someone like my father, it's the same thing. To him, anyone with dark skin is a nigger
As for my own erroneous understanding of the word, I wonder where that came from? Am I unconsciously racist? Do I automatically associate dark skin with being dirty and greasy? I should hope not. But what goes on in my unconscious mind is, I'm afraid, outside my control. There could be a latent racist lurking in there somewhere, as distasteful as that is to my conscious mind.
I'm wondering why.
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Re: Is Swarthy derogatory?
Swarthy chaps probably like oily food full of garlic, and they make the ladies a little over-excited... 
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Re: Is Swarthy derogatory?
"Tall, dark and handsome" or "Tall, swarthy and handsome"? The first is the cliche, but the second doesn't seem derogatory. But if you say, "You swarthy piglip-eating motherfucker!" it might.
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Re: Is Swarthy derogatory?
Swarthy can be positive.
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Re: Is Swarthy derogatory?
Why do you hate me?JimC wrote:Swarthy chaps probably like oily food full of garlic, and they make the ladies a little over-excited...
Not really one of us...
(OK, I was nice and Swarthy, last summer, during and after my stay in Greece)
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odysseus
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Re: Is Swarthy derogatory?
Yup. It's all about intention IMO.Audley Strange wrote:Techically, yes. Paki is just an abbreviation of Pakistani, however it has derogatory connotations. I don't have any investment in it being derogatory, in fact, it was because I was reticent in using it as a descriptor at all that lead to this.odysseus wrote:Swarthy just means dark, doesn't it? I guess it will be considered derogatory by anyone who has an investment in calling it derogatory....
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