27 dead at Connecticut school, including 14 kids

[Seth]

No. You don't know a damn thing. You just proved it.

I know way more than you do, obviously, have you have gotten your ideas about firearm features and functionality from people who seem to think that a gun being black makes it extra dangerous.

Yeah. Hoplophobes didn't learn anything from the "assault weapons ban" at all. During that ban, which banned some named rifles and a bunch of minor features like pistol grips and bayonet lugs (when was the last school massacre committed with a bayonet I wonder?), so the manufacturers simply redesigned and renamed their rifles to eliminate bayonet lugs and turned pistol grips into "thumbhole stocks" and went right on manufacturing exactly the same actions they'd been making before the ban.

They don't understand that all semi-automatic rifles function the same way, and any aesthetic change you make in the law can be circumvented quite easily.

[Seth]

A real context, not brags and insults, you two.

It is real context. Strangely, with all that ammunition and all those guns I've not killed a single school child with any of it, and all of it is 100 percent intended and to be used for protecting the innocent and defenseless. That remains the fact for 99.999999 percent of all "semi-automatic assault weapons and high-capacity ammunition feeding devices."

We don't regulate away people's rights merely because one or two (or ten) people commit mass murder, we harden society and provide defenses for the defenseless against such attacks just as we would if we were facing Islamic terrorists attacking our schools.

That we haven't already done this is our national shame.

[Jason]

No. You don't know a damn thing. You just proved it.

I know way more than you do, obviously, have you have gotten your ideas about firearm features and functionality from people who seem to think that a gun being black makes it extra dangerous.

Yeah. Hoplophobes didn't learn anything from the "assault weapons ban" at all. During that ban, which banned some named rifles and a bunch of minor features like pistol grips and bayonet lugs (when was the last school massacre committed with a bayonet I wonder?), so the manufacturers simply redesigned and renamed their rifles to eliminate bayonet lugs and turned pistol grips into "thumbhole stocks" and went right on manufacturing exactly the same actions they'd been making before the ban.

They don't understand that all semi-automatic rifles function the same way, and any aesthetic change you make in the law can be circumvented quite easily.

The assault weapons ban was poorly thought out, certainly. While pistol grips certainly improve lethality in situations like mass murders at close quarters, high capacity magazines combined with semi-automatic fire does far more. So, although mozg is as ignorant a gun owner as you could ever hope to find (the worst kind are the ones that think they actually know something about firearms), she's got a point about her mini-14. It should be banned as well.

[Jason]

A real context, not brags and insults, you two.

It is real context. Strangely, with all that ammunition and all those guns I've not killed a single school child with any of it, and all of it is 100 percent intended and to be used for protecting the innocent and defenseless.

I'm sorry, but did you just describe yourself in some role approximating that of a police officer?

That remains the fact for 99.999999 percent of all "semi-automatic assault weapons and high-capacity ammunition feeding devices."

Proof.

We don't regulate away people's rights

A right you should not have.

merely because one or two (or ten) people commit mass murder

Right. You wait until 10,000 people commit mass murder, declare a state of anarchy and open fire with your own arsenal.

we harden society and provide defenses for the defenseless against such attacks just as we would if we were facing Islamic terrorists attacking our schools.

So you pass on the burden of ownership to others for something you have no right and no reason to own? Brilliant.

That we haven't already done this is our national shame.

That people like you and mozg exist is your national shame.

[Seth]

No. You don't know a damn thing. You just proved it.

I know way more than you do, obviously, have you have gotten your ideas about firearm features and functionality from people who seem to think that a gun being black makes it extra dangerous.

Yeah. Hoplophobes didn't learn anything from the "assault weapons ban" at all. During that ban, which banned some named rifles and a bunch of minor features like pistol grips and bayonet lugs (when was the last school massacre committed with a bayonet I wonder?), so the manufacturers simply redesigned and renamed their rifles to eliminate bayonet lugs and turned pistol grips into "thumbhole stocks" and went right on manufacturing exactly the same actions they'd been making before the ban.

They don't understand that all semi-automatic rifles function the same way, and any aesthetic change you make in the law can be circumvented quite easily.

The assault weapons ban was poorly thought out, certainly. While pistol grips certainly improve lethality in situations like mass murders at close quarters,

No they don't. The M-14 and other WWII fully-automatic assault rifles had straight comb stocks and they were every bit as effective as a pistol grip. A pistol grip is merely more comfortable and ergonomic and adds very little in the way of "improved lethality."

high capacity magazines combined with semi-automatic fire does far more.

This is true. However, limiting magazine capacity does little to slow down the rate of fire. Even California's ridiculous "bullet-point" operated magazine release law does almost nothing to slow down magazine changes to a person who has trained and become proficient in tactical mag changes.

So, although mozg is as ignorant a gun owner as you could ever hope to find (the worst kind are the ones that think they actually know something about firearms), she's got a point about her mini-14. It should be banned as well.

And Diane Feinstein and her ilk want to do exactly that. The problem is that Congress CANNOT ban arms that are suitable for use by the individual soldier. That's what the 2nd Amendment prohibits. The Supreme Court has already made this clear in several cases. Thus, your real agenda of banning everything but single-shot firearms is an unachievable utopian dream.

[Kristie]

That we haven't already done this is our national shame.

That people like you and mozg exist is your national shame.

Gotta agree with that!

[Seth]

A real context, not brags and insults, you two.

It is real context. Strangely, with all that ammunition and all those guns I've not killed a single school child with any of it, and all of it is 100 percent intended and to be used for protecting the innocent and defenseless.

I'm sorry, but did you just describe yourself in some role approximating that of a police officer?

Yup. "Police, at all times, should maintain a relationship with the public that gives reality to the historic tradition that the police are the public and the public are the police; the police being only members of the public who are paid to give full-time attention to duties which are incumbent upon every citizen in the interests of community welfare and existence." Sir Robert Peel, Founder, London Metropolitan Police, the model for every modern law enforcement agency in the civilized world today.

By law, my powers of arrest, as a citizen, are identical to those of a police officer for ANY crime committed in my presence.

That remains the fact for 99.999999 percent of all "semi-automatic assault weapons and high-capacity ammunition feeding devices."

Proof.

Take the number of mass killings perpetrated with "semi-automatic assault weapons" (fewer than 100) and divide by the total number of semi-automatic rifles of military appearance in civilian hands (greater than 50 million). I'll bet you could add a couple of 9's to that figure.

We don't regulate away people's rights

A right you should not have.

merely because one or two (or ten) people commit mass murder

Right. You wait until 10,000 people commit mass murder, declare a state of anarchy and open fire with your own arsenal.

Strawman argument.

we harden society and provide defenses for the defenseless against such attacks just as we would if we were facing Islamic terrorists attacking our schools.

So you pass on the burden of ownership to others for something you have no right and no reason to own? Brilliant.

Except that I DO have a right and a reason (several of them actually) to own them, as enunciated by our Constitution and affirmed by our Supreme Court.

That we haven't already done this is our national shame.

That people like you and mozg exist is your national shame.

Fuck you asshole.

[Jason]

No. You don't know a damn thing. You just proved it.

I know way more than you do, obviously, have you have gotten your ideas about firearm features and functionality from people who seem to think that a gun being black makes it extra dangerous.

Yeah. Hoplophobes didn't learn anything from the "assault weapons ban" at all. During that ban, which banned some named rifles and a bunch of minor features like pistol grips and bayonet lugs (when was the last school massacre committed with a bayonet I wonder?), so the manufacturers simply redesigned and renamed their rifles to eliminate bayonet lugs and turned pistol grips into "thumbhole stocks" and went right on manufacturing exactly the same actions they'd been making before the ban.

They don't understand that all semi-automatic rifles function the same way, and any aesthetic change you make in the law can be circumvented quite easily.

The assault weapons ban was poorly thought out, certainly. While pistol grips certainly improve lethality in situations like mass murders at close quarters,

No they don't. The M-14 and other WWII fully-automatic assault rifles had straight comb stocks and they were every bit as effective as a pistol grip. A pistol grip is merely more comfortable and ergonomic and adds very little in the way of "improved lethality."

Look another gun nutter trying desperately to defend a weapon designed for combat purposes only by comparing it to fully-automatic weapons of World War II. Incidentally, the MP44, MP38, MG42, and more, all included pistol grips in their design. Moron.

ETA: Also the M14 was not a weapon of WWII and only the prototype was fully automatic. Jesus weeping ignorant fucks.

high capacity magazines combined with semi-automatic fire does far more.

This is true. However, limiting magazine capacity does little to slow down the rate of fire. Even California's ridiculous "bullet-point" operated magazine release law does almost nothing to slow down magazine changes to a person who has trained and become proficient in tactical mag changes.

I know right? People trained and practiced in tactical reloading are the real danger. Ban them.

So, although mozg is as ignorant a gun owner as you could ever hope to find (the worst kind are the ones that think they actually know something about firearms), she's got a point about her mini-14. It should be banned as well.

And Diane Feinstein and her ilk want to do exactly that. The problem is that Congress CANNOT ban arms that are suitable for use by the individual soldier. That's what the 2nd Amendment prohibits. The Supreme Court has already made this clear in several cases. Thus, your real agenda of banning everything but single-shot firearms is an unachievable utopian dream.

To hell with your 2nd amendment. It's a critical failure of the American system and a total anachronism.

[Seth]

That we haven't already done this is our national shame.

That people like you and mozg exist is your national shame.

Gotta agree with that!

Fuck you too, bitch.

[Jason]

Except that I DO have a right and a reason (several of them actually) to own them, as enunciated by our Constitution and affirmed by our Supreme Court.

That's not a right. That's a privilege of legislature. Do you even know what rights are?

Fuck you asshole.

[Seth]

Look another gun nutter trying desperately to defend a weapon designed for combat purposes only by comparing it to fully-automatic weapons of World War II. Incidentally, the MP44, MP38, MG42, and more, all included pistol grips in their design. Moron.

Indeed they did, but I'm not the moron here, you are. The AR-15 is a semi-automatic look-alike of the fully-automatic military assault rifle, the M-16. It merely looks like one, it does not function like one. One trigger pull, one round fired. Every semi-automatic weapon on earth functions the same way.

I know right? People trained and practiced in tactical reloading are the real danger. Ban them.

To hell with your 2nd amendment. It's a critical failure of the American system and a total anachronism.

Fortunately, our political system doesn't give a flying fuck what you or your ilk think, and it's expressly designed to prevent you and your ilk from infringing upon our rights.

[Coito ergo sum]

If you don't necessarily agree with current legislation, why don't you take your own advice and leave the country?

If there were one that I would prefer to live in, I would go.

Same here.

[mozg]

The assault weapons ban was poorly thought out, certainly. While pistol grips certainly improve lethality in situations like mass murders at close quarters, high capacity magazines combined with semi-automatic fire does far more. So, although mozg is as ignorant a gun owner as you could ever hope to find (the worst kind are the ones that think they actually know something about firearms), she's got a point about her mini-14. It should be banned as well.

Tactical magazine change in a situation where the victims are defenseless can be easily accomplished in 1 or 2 seconds, meaning there's very little difference between a single 30 round standard capacity magazine and 3 artificially small capacity 10 round magazines for a rifle. Anybody bent on doing destruction is going to pre-load the magazines, they're not going to be fumbling around with loose ammunition.

By the way, a full frame double-stack 9mm has a standard magazine capacity of 15 (in a magazine that does not extend below the grip), not 10, which the so-called assault weapons ban mandated. The ten round magazines were either plugged or had to have different springs installed to limit their capacity to 10 rounds. The incorrect language of the so-called assault weapons ban identifying standard capacity magazines as 'high capacity' was almost as ridiculous as the utterly meaningless term 'assault weapon' being coined to describe any rifle that merely looks like a fully automatic rifle.

And pistol grips do not improve lethality in 'situations like mass murders' because in all of these instances (as you keep pointing out) the shooting is done at close range where the absence of a scope and what you claim is 'decreased stability' are not impediments to hitting the target. If you're shooting at something from point blank range and you need a pistol grip on your rifle to hit it, you're dong something seriously wrong. Inside 10 or 20 feet, these attackers aren't exactly getting into a stance and trying to keep the sights on their victims.

[Seth]

Except that I DO have a right and a reason (several of them actually) to own them, as enunciated by our Constitution and affirmed by our Supreme Court.

That's not a right. That's a privilege of legislature. Do you even know what rights are?

Indeed I do. Do you? Evidently not. The 2nd Amendment doesn't enunciate a right, it protects against legislative infringement a pre-existing natural and fundamental right claimed by the People. In other words, our Congress, and all other government agencies including the states under the 14th Amendment, have NO AUTHORITY to infringe upon my right to keep and bear arms. Any arms. And specifically arms suitable for use by the individual soldier, such as the semi-automatic version of the military-issue M-16.

[Jason]

Look another gun nutter trying desperately to defend a weapon designed for combat purposes only by comparing it to fully-automatic weapons of World War II. Incidentally, the MP44, MP38, MG42, and more, all included pistol grips in their design. Moron.

Indeed they did, but I'm not the moron here, you are. The AR-15 is a semi-automatic look-alike of the fully-automatic military assault rifle, the M-16. It merely looks like one, it does not function like one. One trigger pull, one round fired. Every semi-automatic weapon on earth functions the same way.

No they don't. As a trained police officer you should know better. There are different designs for cycling rounds, but yes they all fire bullets. The AR-15 is a weapons system, it was designed as such, when outfitted for close quarters combat (like the one I posted a pic of) it becomes a much more lethal weapon in that situation than a rancher mini 14. It's all about the ergonomics (which have fuck all to do with comfort).



Moron.

I know right? People trained and practiced in tactical reloading are the real danger. Ban them.

To hell with your 2nd amendment. It's a critical failure of the American system and a total anachronism.

Fortunately, our political system doesn't give a flying fuck what you or your ilk think, and it's expressly designed to prevent you and your ilk from infringing upon our rights.

[/quote]
They're not rights, and you should not have them.