27 dead at Connecticut school, including 14 kids

[Seth]

It would violate the 2nd, 4th and 5th Amendments all at once.

So overturn the constitution. The supreme court can do that I believe.

No, it can't. And if it tries to do so, it becomes a rogue court that has turned traitor and must receive the treatment that any traitor deserves.

But the Constitution could be amended by using the appointed processes.

Good luck with repealing the 2nd Amendment.

And if by some chance you should succeed, a good many of us will secede.

[Blind groper]

To Seth

Re the constitution.

The second amendment, as I keep telling you, is an absurdity. No other nation has this idiocy in its constitution. it is a historical anomaly based on the need, in the 18th century for a civilian militia. That need has long since passed into the mists of history, making the second amendment ludicrous. It survives purely because of the pro-gun lobby loony groups, which make its repeal politically inexpedient.

The fourth amendment does not cover people coming into the home at the invitation of the home owner.

The fifth amendment, according to your interpretation, would prevent drivers licences being required, which is also ludicrous.

[Blind groper]

Good luck with repealing the 2nd Amendment.

And if by some chance you should succeed, a good many of us will secede.

Where will you go, Seth?

You cannot secede because that is treason, punishable with death. No other country has a ridiculous second amendment, so emigrating will not help continue the insanity.

[mozg]

Mozg said something about accepting it as the price of gun ownership. Jim is exaggerating just a little bit.

Risk is part and parcel with individual liberty.

Although incidents like Friday's shooting make sensational headlines and get wall-to-wall news coverage, they are actually not common occurrences and are not a significant cause of death for any age group, and that includes children. The reason that stuff like this makes worldwide news is that it is rare, and it's not a significant contributor to cause of death for minors. Traffic fatalities annually for those age 14 and under in the United States are between 1,300 (2009) and 2,100 (2003) per year, but there isn't the kind of news coverage every time one of those deaths happens so it is easier for the general public to ignore the fact that kids 14 and under are 50 to 100 times more likely to die in an automobile accident than a mass shooting.

Emotional responses to highly publicized events that occur much less frequently than they are perceived to happen due to the way information spreads should not be the basis for infringing upon those liberties.

[klr]

It would violate the 2nd, 4th and 5th Amendments all at once.

So overturn the constitution. The supreme court can do that I believe.

No, it can't. And if it tries to do so, it becomes a rogue court that has turned traitor and must receive the treatment that any traitor deserves.

But the Constitution could be amended by using the appointed processes.

Good luck with repealing the 2nd Amendment.

And if by some chance you should succeed, a good many of us will secede.

Good riddance if you do. Any state that secedes so that it can reinstate the right to bear arms won't stop at that. Chances are, it would want to overturn the secular bulwark that is included in the First Amendment. It would introduce creationism, thus wrecking its education system. It would also want to implement social and economic policies that the Tea Party would love. Any such state would lose many of its best and brightest, as well many other hard-working people at the lower end of the income scale.

So go right on ahead ...

[Jason]

Emotional responses ... should not be the basis for ...

If it escaped your notice, I've been saying that since Friday. Which may be one of the few points we agree on.

[Blind groper]

Although incidents like Friday's shooting make sensational headlines and get wall-to-wall news coverage, they are actually not common occurrences and are not a significant cause of death for any age group, and that includes children.

That is very true, and is the reason my arguments have not focused on the Connecticut killings.

However, there are other killings, which occur in the thousands. They are not at all uncommon. The USA still has the highest murder rate of the advanced world, and 50% of those murders are with hand guns. 8,000 per year at present. In addition, hand guns are used in 12,000 suicides each year - about half the total.

Keeping a hand gun at home does almost zero towards helping against dangerous intruders. Its main effect is on suicide rates. 87% of all killings with a gun in the home in the USA are suicides, of the gun owner, or a member of his/her family. The New England Journal of Medicine article rates the increased risk as anything from double to ten fold, depending on how securely the gun is stored.

Keeping a gun at home also dramatically increases the risk of a murder of a family member, normally by another family member, or by a visitor to the home - a friend or colleague.

These are not minor risks, since the numbers are up to 20,000 deaths per year total. Suicide, for example, is the second biggest killer of young people, and half those suicides are with hand guns.

[klr]

Although incidents like Friday's shooting make sensational headlines and get wall-to-wall news coverage, they are actually not common occurrences and are not a significant cause of death for any age group, and that includes children.

That is very true, and is the reason my arguments have not focused on the Connecticut killings.

However, there are other killings, which occur in the thousands. They are not at all uncommon. The USA still has the highest murder rate of the advanced world, and 50% of those murders are with hand guns. 8,000 per year at present. In addition, hand guns are used in 12,000 suicides each year - about half the total.

Keeping a hand gun at home does almost zero towards helping against dangerous intruders. Its main effect is on suicide rates. 87% of all killings with a gun in the home in the USA are suicides, of the gun owner, or a member of his/her family. The New England Journal of Medicine article rates the increased risk as anything from double to ten fold, depending on how securely the gun is stored.

Keeping a gun at home also dramatically increases the risk of a murder of a family member, normally by another family member, or by a visitor to the home - a friend or colleague.

These are not minor risks, since the numbers are up to 20,000 deaths per year total. Suicide, for example, is the second biggest killer of young people, and half those suicides are with hand guns.

Which is what happened here - except that it was only the start of it.

[Gallstones]

Good luck with repealing the 2nd Amendment.

And if by some chance you should succeed, a good many of us will secede.

Where will you go, Seth?

You cannot secede because that is treason, punishable with death. No other country has a ridiculous second amendment, so emigrating will not help continue the insanity.

What other countries have is 100% irrelevant to the significance or permissibility of what the US has.

[Gallstones]

It would violate the 2nd, 4th and 5th Amendments all at once.

So overturn the constitution. The supreme court can do that I believe.

• 

Oh, and BTW, that's The Constitution.

[Gallstones]

Mozg said something about accepting it as the price of gun ownership. Jim is exaggerating just a little bit.

Risk is part and parcel with individual liberty.

Although incidents like Friday's shooting make sensational headlines and get wall-to-wall news coverage, they are actually not common occurrences and are not a significant cause of death for any age group, and that includes children. The reason that stuff like this makes worldwide news is that it is rare, and it's not a significant contributor to cause of death for minors. Traffic fatalities annually for those age 14 and under in the United States are between 1,300 (2009) and 2,100 (2003) per year, but there isn't the kind of news coverage every time one of those deaths happens so it is easier for the general public to ignore the fact that kids 14 and under are 50 to 100 times more likely to die in an automobile accident than a mass shooting.

Emotional responses to highly publicized events that occur much less frequently than they are perceived to happen due to the way information spreads should not be the basis for infringing upon those liberties.

Exactly.

[Jason]

It would violate the 2nd, 4th and 5th Amendments all at once.

So overturn the constitution. The supreme court can do that I believe.

• 

Oh, and BTW, that's The Constitution.

Sort of like God and not god?

Yes, those are both jokes. Seth just missed it.

[Blind groper]

Oh, and BTW, that's The Constitution.

Not being American, I am not expert on this. But as I understand it, the constitution can be amended with a two thirds majority vote in congress?

[Svartalf]

problem is that whoever amends the second emendment will be amended by way of massive amounts of molybdotherapy, and their work reversed at once.

[Gallstones]

Oh, and BTW, that's The Constitution.

Not being American, I am not expert on this. But as I understand it, the constitution can be amended with a two thirds majority vote in congress?

The Constitution as a whole? Not really.
Amendment by Amendment, tediously and over many lifetimes; or by revolution.