27 dead at Connecticut school, including 14 kids

[Seabass]

There's nothing about "divine rights" in the US constitution. There are "inalienable rights" (life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness), but they're not so inalienable. A lot of states have the death penalty and all of them incarcerate, so we can deprive criminals of their "inalienable rights." After they become criminals, that is. Not before. The Supreme Court says the Constitution says we can have guns. Unless we are criminals.

As long as incidents like this can happen and do happen with the frequency that they do, I will continue to see it as a problem that needs to be fixed, and I don't see any other possible fix than tighter regulations and enforcement of those regulations. It's probably just a symptom of a culture that's bombarded with glorified violence, but you can't legislate culture. I would support an amendment to the Constitution to allow for tighter restrictions - but not prohibition - on gun ownership.

Now I'm going to disappear while people from both ends of the spectrum excoriate me and what I've written.

Blame violent movies and video games? Is that any different from how Joe Lieberman and Al Gore blamed Twisted Sister and Black Sabbath for all society's ills back in the '80s?

Also, does America glorify violence more per capita than other nations? I've seen a lot of violent foreign movies.

[Blind groper]

Also, does America glorify violence more per capita than other nations? I've seen a lot of violent foreign movies.

The culture of guns and violence goes a lot further than just movies. Sure, movies are a part of it, but only a part. You have everything in between, ranging from the second amendment giving gun violence a kind of approval, to video games, to the cowboy killer hero, to the NRA, to the KKK, to people like Seth pronouncing that guns are a blessing and a whole lot of other stuff.

Take movies, though. It is not just violence. it is the way that violence is expressed. The British hero is exemplified by James Bond - a very violent person. But, while he uses guns and uses them with great skill, he is so much else. He is an expert in unarmed combat. An athlete and a sprinter. A card player. A highly educated man with a university degree, and fluent in several languages. He is a man of good taste in wines, food, and fashion. He is witty and charming.

The American violent hero can be exemplified by Clint Eastwood's 'man with no name', in the spaghetti westerns. He is a man with one skill only. He is superb at killing people with a gun. Nothing else.

[FBM]

He was a pretty good equestrian, too.

[Jason]

Because guns aren't "the" problem, some people refuse to see that guns play any part at all. But the situation isn't black and white. Are guns THE problem? Arguably not. Are they a major factor in the degree of carnage in these situations? Absolutely.

Is that what you were trying to argue? Who are these people that dispute that a person with a gun can do more damage than one with a knife? It wasn't me.

[Seabass]

Also, does America glorify violence more per capita than other nations? I've seen a lot of violent foreign movies.

The culture of guns and violence goes a lot further than just movies. Sure, movies are a part of it, but only a part. You have everything in between, ranging from the second amendment giving gun violence a kind of approval, to video games, to the cowboy killer hero, to the NRA, to the KKK, to people like Seth pronouncing that guns are a blessing and a whole lot of other stuff.

Take movies, though. It is not just violence. it is the way that violence is expressed. The British hero is exemplified by James Bond - a very violent person. But, while he uses guns and uses them with great skill, he is so much else. He is an expert in unarmed combat. An athlete and a sprinter. A card player. A highly educated man with a university degree, and fluent in several languages. He is a man of good taste in wines, food, and fashion. He is witty and charming.

The American violent hero can be exemplified by Clint Eastwood's 'man with no name', in the spaghetti westerns. He is a man with one skill only. He is superb at killing people with a gun. Nothing else.

Crock of B.S. from Groper, as usual.

Firstly, the Clint Eastwood character you speak of appeared in Italian movies. Secondly, "man with no name" was not a simple, heartless, murdering psychopath. Something tells me you haven't actually seen these movies.

Thirdly, Britain produces other violent movies whose characters aren't so refined. Guy Ritchie comes to mind (Lock Stock & Two Smoking Barrels, Snatch etc). And U.S. studios make movies whose protagonists are more than simple heartless, murdering, killing machines.

You're just cherry picking and stereotyping, as usual.

[macdoc]

The problem exists and axe handles/baseball bats/2x4's/door stops/paper weights are used. The problem exists and fists are used.

bullshit - flat out.
fucking gun worshipper dingbats are the problem......

[Jason]

Thirdly, Britain produces other violent movies whose characters aren't so refined. Guy Ritchie comes to mind (Lock Stock & Two Smoking Barrels, Snatch etc). And U.S. studios make movies whose protagonists are more than simple heartless, murdering, killing machines.

Get Carter (1971 - Michael Caine) embodies almost everything groper lists as 'gun culture'. Great film by the way.

[cronus]

There isn't a story to American movies though, just a formulaic 'play-it-safe' predictable plot which amplifies the violence as that is the only thing the movie directors have with which to be creative.

[JimC]

It will be interesting at a political level to see whether this tragic event actually galvanises the US anti-gun movement, and creates a wave of support for greater restrictions on gun ownership.

Waiting for certain forum members to say "Over my dead body", whereupon I shall reply "yes, quite possibly..."

[FBM]

CNN is suggesting that his mother bought the guns legally. I think one piece of reform that would be meaningful would be if people who do buy guns legally were required to store them in a manner that only they - the buyers - could have access to them. And be able to prove that they do so.

[Jason]

It will be interesting at a political level to see whether this tragic event actually galvanises the US anti-gun movement, and creates a wave of support for greater restrictions on gun ownership.

Waiting for certain forum members to say "Over my dead body", whereupon I shall reply "yes, quite possibly..."

Unlikely in the extreme.

[Gallstones]

The problem exists and axe handles/baseball bats/2x4's/door stops/paper weights are used. The problem exists and fists are used.

bullshit - flat out.
fucking gun worshipper dingbats are the problem......

Yes, of course. Your wisdom supercedes all.
You forgot to mention pit bulls.

[/thread]

[Gallstones]

It will be interesting at a political level to see whether this tragic event actually galvanises the US anti-gun movement, and creates a wave of support for greater restrictions on gun ownership.

Waiting for certain forum members to say "Over my dead body", whereupon I shall reply "yes, quite possibly..."

Right, modify the Amendment, increase restrictive legislation and reduce violence by killing the gun nut hold outs.
Sounds perfect.

[Jason]

I'm assuming Jim is engaging in a bit of uncharacteristic trolling. It is interesting how these tragedies bring the emotive irrationality of the anti-gun movement to the light of day.

No. I shouldn't say that. It would be extremely callous of me.

[Gallstones]

Changes have to be ground up. Top down always exacerbates resistance and rebellion.
If there is even a whiff of increased restriction there will be an increase in buying and hoarding.