27 dead at Connecticut school, including 14 kids

[mistermack]

I just hope that a high proportion of the parents were gun enthusiasts.

At least they'll have the comfort of knowing that their children weren't killed by guns. The gun was just a tool.
I'm sure it will make them feel so much better. Perhaps pord can write to the misguided ones and explain it all.
Or maybe we can have a whip-round, and buy them rifles to soften the blow.

I would probably be buying guns the next day, and go hunting NRA bosses.

You never miss an opportunity to be as repugnant a troll as you possibly can do you?

Why should it bother someone who lives in a fantasy world? You can just get your tool out, and stroke it till you feel better.

[JimC]

klr has nailed it...

This is a fraught topic, we all need to cool down a little...

[orpheus]

I don't see any need for warnings or even reminders myself (your mileage may vary of course), but I can see this discussion is getting very heated. It's always worth while stepping back for a few minutes to take stock and see where things are going. I know, I've had to do it plenty of times myself in the past.

Well, that's true. This discussion could get very heated indeed. And it is worth stepping back to gain perspective.

However, I can assure you that my "fuck you" was quite carefully considered. I don't use that phrase very often.

[Twoflower]

This impacted me more than it should I suppose.

I always consider myself fairly logical but this incident moved me to near tears.

A man, most likely with a medical illness, went into a classroom and killed every single child in sight. Just to think about the entirety of it is horribly sad. Kids love going to school... absolutely love it. They also love Christmas, counting down the days, staying up late every night in anticipation. Now they are gone... dead. Devastated parents will eventually open up their closet just see those presents sitting of the shelf...wrapped. Will they keep the presents for a few years, feeling a terrible sadness each time their gaze hits the presents?

Just horrible.

Of course it moved you to near tears. I almost cried as well, it's so unbelievably sad what happened to those kids, teachers, and the families. It's going to take years for the ones who survived to be able to heal and feel safe again, if they ever feel safe again.

[Jason]

However, I can assure you that my "fuck you" was quite carefully considered. I don't use that phrase very often.

Indeed? I wasn't offended at the first one, I assumed you wrote it in anger. That not being the case, I hope you didn't exhaust your dearth of 'fuck you's and saved enough for yourself. Clearly you're not one for reasoned discussion.

[Jason]

I just hope that a high proportion of the parents were gun enthusiasts.

At least they'll have the comfort of knowing that their children weren't killed by guns. The gun was just a tool.
I'm sure it will make them feel so much better. Perhaps pord can write to the misguided ones and explain it all.
Or maybe we can have a whip-round, and buy them rifles to soften the blow.

I would probably be buying guns the next day, and go hunting NRA bosses.

You never miss an opportunity to be as repugnant a troll as you possibly can do you?

Why should it bother someone who lives in a fantasy world? You can just get your tool out, and stroke it till you feel better.

As for you, be gone troll.

[Blind groper]

Guns are not the problem and we agree.

OK. Guns are not the problem.
Tell me about all those mass killings in schools that occurred without guns.

[Kristie]

Guns are not the problem and we agree.

OK. Guns are not the problem.
Tell me about all those mass killings in schools that occurred without guns.

Sporks just aren't as effective.

[Jason]

Guns are not the problem and we agree.

OK. Guns are not the problem.
Tell me about all those mass killings in schools that occurred without guns.

Timothy McVeigh killed 168 people with a bomb. Would you say then that bombs were the problem there?

Let's identify the real problem behind the atrocity, not the means used. Hmm?

[Blind groper]

Timothy McVeigh killed 168 people with a bomb. Would you say then that bombs were the problem there?

True. But this is not the norm. In the USA, we see numerous cases of mass killings, and they almost always depend on guns.

[Twoflower]

I wonder if we need to look closer at the health care system and not focus fully on gun control, but maybe the two topic together.

[Jason]

Classic groper.

I can't decide if you purposefully distort the points others make, or you just don't grasp them.

[Blind groper]

I can't decide if you purposefully distort the points others make, or you just don't grasp them.

Oh, I grasp them OK. I just don't agree with them.

For example : You are trying to say that guns are not the problem. The people who wield them are. But such people exist in every country, and only the USA has such an enormously high rate of killings of that type. What is the difference, for example, between the people of the UK and the people of the USA in terms of violence? Probably very little. However, the violent people of the USA have guns and are strongly influenced by American gun culture, which is not the case in the UK. Result : Lots and lots of innocent people killed in the USA, and a much smaller number in the UK.

To compare the two, look at overall murder rates. This measured as deliberate killings per 100,000 people per year.
USA 4.7
UK 1.2

[Tero]

Timothy McVeigh killed 168 people with a bomb. Would you say then that bombs were the problem there?

True. But this is not the norm. In the USA, we see numerous cases of mass killings, and they almost always depend on guns.

Just try purchasing nitrate fertilizer anymore. You'll need some permits. You can get tons of urea. But this is because it does not blow up in connection with diesel fuel.

[Jason]

I can't decide if you purposefully distort the points others make, or you just don't grasp them.

Oh, I grasp them OK. I just don't agree with them.

For example : You are trying to say that guns are not the problem. The people who wield them are. But such people exist in every country, and only the USA has such an enormously high rate of killings of that type. What is the difference, for example, between the people of the UK and the people of the USA in terms of violence? Probably very little. However, the violent people of the USA have guns and are strongly influenced by American gun culture, which is not the case in the UK. Result : Lots and lots of innocent people killed in the USA, and a much smaller number in the UK.

I've responded to this pathetic excuse for an argument already. Canadians have very nearly the same ease of access to all the kinds of firearms you can obtain in the US, yet psychopaths are not murdering our children in their schools with or without firearms. This stands in solid opposition to your assertion that the accessibility of firearms is causative.

And no, I'm not saying the people who wield them are the problem. I'm saying either the system in place in the United States to prevent these people from going on killing sprees is the problem, or there's something terribly wrong with American society so much so that it breeds an inordinate amount of psychopaths that's the problem, or there's something terribly deficient in the system in place in the United States to identify these psychopaths and treat them appropriately that is the problem, or its a triumvirate of problems. Perhaps more.