orpheus wrote:Făkünamę wrote:orpheus wrote:Something else just occurred to me. To those who contend that guns are not the problem; that people would just kill with other implements: why don't we see those incidents then? If there's nothing special about guns, we should also see comparable numbers of deaths - intentional and accidental - from other weapons. But we don't.
Wonder why that is.
Let me try to straighten out your warped perception of this line of argument. When I say guns are not the problem, I mean they are not the causative factor. The availability of guns is the reason they are used, yes. But the reason tragedies like this occur is not because of the tools employed. Thus they are not the problem. Remove the tools, the problem remains. Guns did not make this man do what he did, he used them to do it.
Sometimes I wonder if anti-gun people understand the concept of causality at all.
Yes, I understand causality, and I never said guns were the cause. I never said guns made the guy do this. You're putting words in my mouth there.
Well I'm glad you cleared that up then. Guns are not the problem and we agree.
But guns are not comparable to old tool, either. I wonder if you understand that.
No, I don't understand that because it's false. They are tools just as knives are tools. They become weapons when used as a weapon.
You say the availability of guns is the reason they're used. Bullshit. Knives and blunt objects are much more easily available, yet we don't see knife and blunt object tragedies on anything like this scale. What you've left out is that guns are remarkably efficient killing tools, designed expressly for that purpose. To not take that into account when describing the problem is either short-sighted or flat out dishonest.
Not at all. I made the mistake of assuming everyone here had the intelligence to understand the obvious and didn't need it stated. However, guns are not tools expressly for killing. I am glad we agree they are tools however.
So you're technically right when you say "Remove the tools, the problem remains." But remove these particular tools and the intensity and scale of the problem will go way, way down.
Your basis for this line of reasoning is what exactly? I mean when so many other methods of mass murder are so easily available, why should the removal of firearms reduce the intensity and scale of the damage these deranged persons are capable of doing?