2012 US Election -- Round 2

[Coito ergo sum]

LOL - when did Democrats start building or buying businesses for the purpose of creating jobs, rather than running a profitable business and providing goods and services better and cheaper than the competition?

[Tero]

No need! We will just take over your area of business and create Gubment Jobs! No economy is right till we have 50% working for the Gubment.

[kiki5711]

Mitt Romney and Bain Capital: Understanding the Reality

It should be evident in understanding the function of Bain and other equity funds that job creation or job loss is ancillary to the investment goals and activities. To increase the profits of the acquired company, the fund may reduce the number of employees, reduce pay levels or curtail work time. In that case the fund could face worker anger and union pressure. If the company happens to become very successful, as Staples did after Bain acquired it, it may expand its business requiring that it increase hiring and work time.

Well, duh. Job creation is ancillary to any business. People don't run businesses for the purpose of creating jobs.

And, people don't invest for the purpose of creating jobs. When you put money in an IRA or 401k, is it for the purpose of creating jobs? Of course not.

However, job creation is ancillary to both, because businesses can't operate without people, so the more businesses that we have, the more people work, etc.

It also tells us that he is willing to take risks and to take action required to achieve his goals irrespective of whether that action helps or hurts people affected by it -- in this case employees of the acquired companies. It also tells us that he is flexible -- he could not accomplish what he did without being adaptable, willing to "go with the flow" and accommodate his views to his business interests and those of his investors and lenders. We have already seen much of that flexibility in his willingness as a candidate to change his political positions to accommodate the demands of the constituency whose support he is seeking. It also tells us that what he says now on the stump is not necessarily what he will do if he is elected president to accomplish his goals.

As do other Romney zombies, you didn't read the most important part. Underlined and bold.

He did not create jobs. Romney eliminated them, and made profit that way.

[Coito ergo sum]

No need! We will just take over your area of business and create Gubment Jobs! No economy is right till we have 50% 100% working for the Gubment.

Everyone should make the same pay, too.

[mistermack]

There are very good reasons why some things should be done by government agencies, not private enterprise.
The first is competition.
When there are loads of companies genuinely competing to supply a service or product, private enterprise is the best system to meet that need. And you can generally say that that applies to a majority of things that people need.
But when there really is no prospect of genuine competition, then the government needs to do the job.
In the UK, we have a fiction, or fig leaf, of competition, in various national services.
Like running the trains. And it doesn't work, it's a disaster.
You have just two companies, bidding to run the network. And the contract lasts for something like ten years. ( I'm guessing, it might actually be more ).

This is just a joke, it's a virtual monopoly, with the public squeezed between two firms.
It just doesn't work, and yet the same thing is happening throughout the economy.

It's a complete parody of competition, and yet we do it. Why? Not because it's better, but because it weakens and fragments the unions.
If all the things farmed out were done by the government, the unions would have huge power, and higher membership. When it's all subcontracted out to "mickey mouse" outfits, the unions can't get a grip.

So we have to put up with paying more for services, filling the pockets of virtual monopolies, just because neither party has the balls to weaken the unions with laws.
Labour are in the pocket of the unions, and the Tories get paid off by the big companies bidding for government work. So nothing's likely to change.

It's not that governments CAN'T run things. It's just vested interests.

[Coito ergo sum]

It also tells us that he is willing to take risks and to take action required to achieve his goals irrespective of whether that action helps or hurts people affected by it -- in this case employees of the acquired companies. It also tells us that he is flexible -- he could not accomplish what he did without being adaptable, willing to "go with the flow" and accommodate his views to his business interests and those of his investors and lenders. We have already seen much of that flexibility in his willingness as a candidate to change his political positions to accommodate the demands of the constituency whose support he is seeking. It also tells us that what he says now on the stump is not necessarily what he will do if he is elected president to accomplish his goals.

As do other Romney zombies, you didn't read the most important part. Underlined and bold.

He did not create jobs. Romney eliminated them, and made profit that way.

He did create jobs, and he also eliminated them. You can't turn around companies, generally speaking, without doing that. How many jobs did Staples create? However, that job creation was "ancillary." It's not the purpose of Staples to create jobs. It's the purpose of staples to sell office products that people want, and do so better than the competition. It succeed at that, and as an ancillary byproduct of company growth, 10s of thousands of jobs were needed to be filled.

It's a platitude to talk of "achieving goals irrespective of how those goals effect other people." If a company can't make money, then it's going to eventually run out of operating capital. If it does that, it goes out of business and everyone loses their job. So, if a faltering company needs to be turned around, then tough decisions may have to be made. Anyone who has run a business knows that you can't just employ people because they need jobs. If you think that is a reasonable thing to demand, Kiki, then why don't you go out and hire some people who you don't really need working for you? If you answer that question honestly, you may understand why a business can't do that either.

[kiki5711]

"Mitt Romney and his partners made a killing on the GM bankruptcy by gaining control of bankrupt parts supplier Delphi, then threatening to withhold components critical to the production of GM vehicles... This is the real Romney" - UAW President Bob King

On Thursday, a highly popular Daily Kos post (see for additional coverage) concerned the United Auto Workers Union's filing of ethics charges alleging that Mitt Romney and his business partners improperly profiteered from the 2009 auto industry bailout.

One day earlier, on Wednesday, in a searing op-ed that ran in USA Today, President of the United Auto Workers Bob King directly accused presidential candidate Mitt Romney, and his business partners, of extorting windfall profits during the 2008-2009 economic crisis through their control of the key General Motors parts supplier, Delphi.

Whether or not this meets, for fine print reasons, the legal definition of "extortion" -- which if carried out by individuals rather than heavily-lawyered corporations can constitute a federal crime -- that is in effect what Bob King, head of the the UAW, has accused Mitt Romney and his business partners of, in his USA Today op-ed:

"Mitt Romney and his partners made a killing on the GM bankruptcy by gaining control of bankrupt parts supplier Delphi, then threatening to withhold components critical to the production of GM vehicles. Romney's business partners were willing to force GM into liquidation and cause a national economic calamity unless they got more money. In the end, the Romney investor group got what it wanted and earned a profit of more than 3,000 percent on its initial investment.

This is the real Romney, a man who objected to the rescue of the domestic auto industry, then made astronomical profits after his business partners threatened the survival of GM. A man who lies about Chrysler moving jobs to China, when his history at Bain Capital, the private equity firm he founded, shows that he has invested in Chinese factories where workers are grossly exploited. Romney won't even act to stop the Sensata factory in Illinois, in which he is an investor, from closing the doors and moving to China the day before the election.

Mitt Romney won't come clean on Chrysler, won't come clean on his Chinese investments and threatened the restructuring of GM for his own profit. That is the picture of a me-first hedge-fund investor, not someone who has the judgment or character to be President of the United States."

Regardless of which candidate prevails in the upcoming election, I suspect this will go down in history as a pivotal moment for American labor unions.

[kiki5711]

http://uaw.org/articles/unions-good-gov ... se-big-aut

Unions, good government groups file ethics complaint against Romney for failing to disclose big auto rescue profit
11/01/12

Groups urge Office of Government Ethics to make Romney disclose or divest

WASHINGTON – A coalition of community, labor and good government organizations is calling on the U.S. Office of Government Ethics to investigate presidential candidate Mitt Romney for noncompliance with the Ethics in Government Act and compel him to either disclose his investments or divest them.

A letter sent today to Don W. Fox, general counsel of the Office of Government Ethics, states that Gov. Romney “has not even attempted to meet the requirements for a federal blind trust with respect to his substantial equity holdings. The only way for this law to be enforced in a meaningful way is for your Office to act promptly to demand that candidate Romney disclose his stock holdings, or divest them if disclosure is not feasible.”

The letter was sent by Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington, People for the American Way, Public Campaign, Public Citizen, SEIU, UAW and The Social Equity Group, and it follows up on a previous letter sent to the Office of Government Ethics on Aug. 23, 2012, that urged the office to act.

“The American people have a right to know about Governor Romney’s potential conflicts of interest, such as the profits his family made from the auto rescue,” said UAW President Bob King. “It’s time for Governor Romney to disclose or divest.

“The company Romney founded, Bain Capital, continues to devastate American workers and communities by closing profitable U.S. facilities and shifting work to China to make even more profits. A current example happening today is Bain closing a profitable Sensata plant in Freeport, Ill. While Romney was opposing the rescue of one of the nation’s most important manufacturing sectors, he was building his fortunes with his Delphi investor group, making his fortunes off the misfortunes of others. These are all examples of the Romney economy we can expect if Romney becomes president,” King added.

“When I first hired in everything was going well,” said Heath Lindsay, a former Delphi worker from Dayton. “I bought a home, got married, and had a child. When the bankruptcy happened, my pay was cut in half and we lost our home to foreclosure. My pension was terminated in 2007 and was turned over to the PGBC [Pension Benefit Guarantee Corporation]. I am eligible for a 401(k), but I can’t afford to contribute to it. When my wages were good, we could get by but I am the sole provider for my wife and kids and life is a lot harder now,” Lindsay added.

The groups believe that Romney’s undisclosed stock holdings create serious conflicts of interest. They point to the auto loans as a key example. The Nation recently reported that the Romney family personally profited by at least $15.3 million from the auto loans of 2009. Yet Romney’s June 1, 2012, Public Financial Disclosure Report to the Office of Government Ethics did not reveal this windfall because he did not disclose the underlying holdings of his private equity and limited partnership funds.

Romney profited from his family’s investment in Delphi Corp. at the expense of the Delphi workers. Other unreported investments that could create conflicts of interest include controversial holdings in Sensata and Global-Tech.

“Mitt Romney is hiding his investments because he doesn’t want the American people to know what a Romney Economy would look like,” said Tom Woodruff, executive vice president of SEIU. “Governor Romney has invested in companies that outsource good jobs to China and cut wages, benefits and pensions for workers here in America. The American people need to know how many other companies like Sensata, Global Tech, and Delphi Governor Romney has invested in.”

With the presidential election less than a week away, the letter urges the Office of Government Ethics to “act now to ensure Mitt Romney is in full compliance with the law’s disclosure requirements so that the public has the necessary information to evaluate candidate Romney’s position on matters in which he stands to benefit personally should his legislative agenda become law. “

[kiki5711]

Mitt Romney faces ethics charges for auto bailout profiteering
Toledo : OH : USA | Nov 04, 2012 at 11:06 AM PST
By itobin53 send a private message SelectMedia

On Monday, Mitt Romney is expected to face charges for ethics violations and profiteering with regard to his involvement with the 2009 government bailout of the auto industry.

“A coalition of community, labor and good government organizations is calling on the U.S. Office of Government Ethics to investigate presidential candidate Mitt Romney for noncompliance with the Ethics in Government Act and compel him to either disclose his investments or divest them,” according to the United Auto Workers Union, who requested the charges.

An investigative report from The Nation found that Mitt Romney and his wife Ann, “personally gained at least $15.3 million from the bailout—and a few of Romney’s most important Wall Street donors made more than $4 billion. Their gains, and the Romney’s, were astronomical—more than 3,000 percent on their investment.”

The Romney profits came from Adelphi, a former parts supplier of the Delco division of General Motors. Adelphi was not technically supposed to be included in the federal bailout money given to the auto industry. But since neither GM nor Chrysler could survive without parts from Adelphi, $12.9 million in federal bailout money was demanded by investors and eventually diverted to hedge funds that Mitt and Ann Romney bought into.

Romney did not disclose his windfall profits from Delphi in his June 1, 2012, Public Financial Disclosure Report to the office of Government Ethics, “because he did not disclose the underlying holdings of his private equity and limited partnership funds,” according to the UAW.

With the UAW charges coming to light, the reason for Mitt Romney’s hiden tax returns becomes more apparent and more important as he seeks the presidency.

Mr. Romney’s refusal to release his tax returns prior to 2010 may be linked to the UAW’s allegations that Mitt and Ann Romney may be tied to ethics violations and profiteering in the 2009 federal auto company bailouts.

By the time Romney and Adelphi’s other investors were done, the company had been stripped of all its union workers and pension funds, and 80 percent of Adelphi’s jobs were shipped to China.

The Huffington Post said, “The allegations are ironic given that Romney has been a staunch critic of the auto bailout. Romney called for the government to let the auto industry go bankrupt in an op-ed in The New York Times in 2008. The Romney campaign also released a misleading ad in October that claims Chrysler has moved all production of Jeeps to China following the auto bailout.”

In an USA Today Op-Ed, UAW president Bob King said, “Mitt Romney and his partners made a killing on the GM bankruptcy by gaining control of bankrupt parts supplier Delphi, then threatening to withhold components critical to the production of GM vehicles. Romney's business partners were willing to force GM into liquidation and cause a national economic calamity unless they got more money…”

“This is the real Romney... A man who lies about Chrysler moving jobs to China, when his history at Bain Capital, the private equity firm he founded, shows that he has invested in Chinese factories where workers are grossly exploited. Romney won't even act to stop the Sensata factory in Illinois, in which he is an investor, from closing the doors and moving to China the day before the election.”

With just days to go before Election Day, it’s hard to know if this will affect the results. But it could make a difference if Romney wins and he is found guilty of felony extortion and profiteering.

[Coito ergo sum]

One more day1!!!!!!

[Tero]

1? Really? If Obama wins, a week. If tossup, a month, plus supreme court or congress.

[Coito ergo sum]

1? Really? If Obama wins, a week. If tossup, a month, plus supreme court or congress.

[Coito ergo sum]

Michelle Obama urges you to "think of what Barack can do in four more years!" --- http://twitchy.com/2012/11/05/best-reas ... ore-years/

[Coito ergo sum]

Newspapers endorsing Romney in droves: http://www.poynter.org/latest-news/medi ... ama-in-08/

[Coito ergo sum]

Can Romney take Michigan? http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/story/19996 ... higan-poll