Interesting conversation on Radio 4 yesterday (I missed the title of the prog as I was in the car unfortunately). Two scientists talking - one a Christian and the other an atheist. The atheist made the point - one I tend to take - that the more we find out about how things work through science the less we require a god to explain things and that was largely why he was an atheist. The other guy said that the more we found out how things work and how amazing it all is, the more it convinced him that there was a god behind it.
Same old stuff of course, but it was interesting to hear it said so simply.
Any thoughts?
Does science and rationalism always lead to scepticism?
Re: Does science and rationalism always lead to scepticism?
The atheist is right, we don't need gods to explain anything. The Christian is claiming the more we know the more he feels a god is behind it but I'd be willing to bet he did not proffer one thing which needed a god to explain it.
Same ol'. Same ol'. Indeed.
Same ol'. Same ol'. Indeed.
Libertarianism: The belief that out of all the terrible things governments can do, helping people is the absolute worst.
-
FBM
- Ratz' first Gritizen.
- Posts: 45327
- Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2009 12:43 pm
- About me: Skeptic. "Because it does not contend
It is therefore beyond reproach" - Contact:
Re: Does science and rationalism always lead to scepticism?
Even scientists can lose a wheel off the wagon when it comes to non-scientific topics. I think there was a book or slogan or something along the lines of 'Why Smart People Do Stupid Things.'
"A philosopher is a blind man in a dark room looking for a black cat that isn't there. A theologian is the man who finds it." ~ H. L. Mencken
"We ain't a sharp species. We kill each other over arguments about what happens when you die, then fail to see the fucking irony in that."
"It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions in favor of vegetarianism while the wolf remains of a different opinion."
"We ain't a sharp species. We kill each other over arguments about what happens when you die, then fail to see the fucking irony in that."
"It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions in favor of vegetarianism while the wolf remains of a different opinion."
-
Robert_S
- Cookie Monster
- Posts: 13416
- Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 5:47 am
- About me: Too young to die of boredom, too old to grow up.
- Location: Illinois
- Contact:
Re: Does science and rationalism always lead to scepticism?
It depends on which concept of god you use. I believed in one that was fairly deistic but could maybe act in stealth mode now and then. This belief of mine was not the same as all my other beliefs in that I never made any assumptions except the thing would work out OK in the end for a definition of "OK" that was beyond human understanding.
It was a very different thing from actually thinking that there was a god about which very much coherent could be reliably said besides that it wasn't me.
It was a very different thing from actually thinking that there was a god about which very much coherent could be reliably said besides that it wasn't me.
What I've found with a few discussions I've had lately is this self-satisfaction that people express with their proffessed open mindedness. In realty it ammounts to wilful ignorance and intellectual cowardice as they are choosing to not form any sort of opinion on a particular topic. Basically "I don't know and I'm not going to look at any evidence because I'm quite happy on this fence."
-Mr P
The Net is best considered analogous to communication with disincarnate intelligences. As any neophyte would tell you. Do not invoke that which you have no facility to banish.
Audley Strange
-Mr P
The Net is best considered analogous to communication with disincarnate intelligences. As any neophyte would tell you. Do not invoke that which you have no facility to banish.
Audley Strange
-
Gawdzilla Sama
- Stabsobermaschinist
- Posts: 151265
- Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 12:24 am
- About me: My posts are related to the thread in the same way Gliese 651b is related to your mother's underwear drawer.
- Location: Sitting next to Ayaan in Domus Draconis, and communicating via PMs.
- Contact:
Re: Does science and rationalism always lead to scepticism?
"Gaps? We got no gaps! We don't need no stinking gaps!"Animavore wrote:The atheist is right, we don't need gods to explain anything. The Christian is claiming the more we know the more he feels a god is behind it but I'd be willing to bet he did not proffer one thing which needed a god to explain it.
Same ol'. Same ol'. Indeed.
Ein Ubootsoldat wrote:“Ich melde mich ab. Grüssen Sie bitte meine Kameraden.”
-
Gawdzilla Sama
- Stabsobermaschinist
- Posts: 151265
- Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 12:24 am
- About me: My posts are related to the thread in the same way Gliese 651b is related to your mother's underwear drawer.
- Location: Sitting next to Ayaan in Domus Draconis, and communicating via PMs.
- Contact:
Re: Does science and rationalism always lead to scepticism?
FBM wrote:Even scientists can lose a wheel off the wagon when it comes to non-scientific topics. I think there was a book or slogan or something along the lines of 'Why Smart People Do Stupid Things.'
Ein Ubootsoldat wrote:“Ich melde mich ab. Grüssen Sie bitte meine Kameraden.”
-
FBM
- Ratz' first Gritizen.
- Posts: 45327
- Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2009 12:43 pm
- About me: Skeptic. "Because it does not contend
It is therefore beyond reproach" - Contact:
Re: Does science and rationalism always lead to scepticism?
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:FBM wrote:Even scientists can lose a wheel off the wagon when it comes to non-scientific topics. I think there was a book or slogan or something along the lines of 'Why Smart People Do Stupid Things.'
Looks like there's a lot of interest in the topic:
http://www.magazine.utoronto.ca/feature ... t-kleiner/
http://www.amazon.com/Why-Smart-People- ... 0595187986
http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2007/ ... -smart-pe/
http://articles.businessinsider.com/201 ... art-people
If I weren't watching a stoopid slasher movie right now, I'd educate myself about it by reading one or more of the links I just posted. However...
I gots a movie to watch.
"A philosopher is a blind man in a dark room looking for a black cat that isn't there. A theologian is the man who finds it." ~ H. L. Mencken
"We ain't a sharp species. We kill each other over arguments about what happens when you die, then fail to see the fucking irony in that."
"It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions in favor of vegetarianism while the wolf remains of a different opinion."
"We ain't a sharp species. We kill each other over arguments about what happens when you die, then fail to see the fucking irony in that."
"It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions in favor of vegetarianism while the wolf remains of a different opinion."
-
Gawdzilla Sama
- Stabsobermaschinist
- Posts: 151265
- Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 12:24 am
- About me: My posts are related to the thread in the same way Gliese 651b is related to your mother's underwear drawer.
- Location: Sitting next to Ayaan in Domus Draconis, and communicating via PMs.
- Contact:
Re: Does science and rationalism always lead to scepticism?
That purple tampon disturbs me. 
Ein Ubootsoldat wrote:“Ich melde mich ab. Grüssen Sie bitte meine Kameraden.”
-
FBM
- Ratz' first Gritizen.
- Posts: 45327
- Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2009 12:43 pm
- About me: Skeptic. "Because it does not contend
It is therefore beyond reproach" - Contact:
Re: Does science and rationalism always lead to scepticism?
Wtf you talkin' 'bout? You were disturbed when you got here.
"A philosopher is a blind man in a dark room looking for a black cat that isn't there. A theologian is the man who finds it." ~ H. L. Mencken
"We ain't a sharp species. We kill each other over arguments about what happens when you die, then fail to see the fucking irony in that."
"It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions in favor of vegetarianism while the wolf remains of a different opinion."
"We ain't a sharp species. We kill each other over arguments about what happens when you die, then fail to see the fucking irony in that."
"It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions in favor of vegetarianism while the wolf remains of a different opinion."
-
Xamonas Chegwé
- Bouncer
- Posts: 50939
- Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 3:23 pm
- About me: I have prehensile eyebrows.
I speak 9 languages fluently, one of which other people can also speak.
When backed into a corner, I fit perfectly - having a right-angled arse. - Location: Nottingham UK
- Contact:
Re: Does science and rationalism always lead to scepticism?
No more than an egg always leads to a soufflé.Does science and rationalism always lead to scepticism?
In fact, I would say that it is more likely for science and scepticism to lead to rationalism. A rationalist, by definition, has abandoned religion in favour of logical, scientific explanations - I would claim that scepticism is more likely a precursor to this than a consequence.
A book is a version of the world. If you do not like it, ignore it; or offer your own version in return.
Salman Rushdie
You talk to God, you're religious. God talks to you, you're psychotic.
House MD
Who needs a meaning anyway, I'd settle anyday for a very fine view.
Sandy Denny
This is the wrong forum for bluffing
Paco
Yes, yes. But first I need to show you this venomous fish!
Calilasseia
I think we should do whatever Pawiz wants.
Twoflower
Bella squats momentarily then waddles on still peeing, like a horse
Millefleur
Salman Rushdie
You talk to God, you're religious. God talks to you, you're psychotic.
House MD
Who needs a meaning anyway, I'd settle anyday for a very fine view.
Sandy Denny
This is the wrong forum for bluffing
Paco
Yes, yes. But first I need to show you this venomous fish!
Calilasseia
I think we should do whatever Pawiz wants.
Twoflower
Bella squats momentarily then waddles on still peeing, like a horse
Millefleur
-
Svartalf
- Offensive Grail Keeper
- Posts: 41043
- Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 12:42 pm
- Location: Paris France
- Contact:
Re: Does science and rationalism always lead to scepticism?
God lives in the gaps and breaches of Natural Law. The more science minded you are, the fewer 'miracles' you can attest to, the less room for a personal deity.
Embrace the Darkness, it needs a hug
PC stands for "Patronizing Cocksucker" Randy Ping
PC stands for "Patronizing Cocksucker" Randy Ping
-
Rum
- Absent Minded Processor
- Posts: 37285
- Joined: Wed Mar 11, 2009 9:25 pm
- Location: South of the border..though not down Mexico way..
- Contact:
Re: Does science and rationalism always lead to scepticism?
All true Svarty, but the more I personally learn, the weirder and stranger I realise the universe and the fabric of reality really is. I'm an atheist because I see no direct evidence for a god or gods, but that doesn't mean this thing we inhabit and are embedded in isn't weird as fuck!
-
tattuchu
- a dickload of cocks
- Posts: 21889
- Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 2:59 pm
- About me: I'm having trouble with the trolley.
- Location: Marmite-upon-Toast, Wankershire
- Contact:
Re: Does science and rationalism always lead to scepticism?
I can understand the Christian's opinion though don't agree with it. Consider our species. What are we? We're sacks of meat. Cut us open and that's all we are, just meat. And yet we think, we speak, we reason, we dream, we create. What animates us? How could this be possible except for the grace of God?
People think "queue" is just "q" followed by 4 silent letters.
But those letters are not silent.
They're just waiting their turn.
But those letters are not silent.
They're just waiting their turn.
Re: Does science and rationalism always lead to scepticism?
Or by the grace of electro-biochemical processes.tattuchu wrote:I can understand the Christian's opinion though don't agree with it. Consider our species. What are we? We're sacks of meat. Cut us open and that's all we are, just meat. And yet we think, we speak, we reason, we dream, we create. What animates us? How could this be possible except for the grace of God?
Libertarianism: The belief that out of all the terrible things governments can do, helping people is the absolute worst.
-
tattuchu
- a dickload of cocks
- Posts: 21889
- Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 2:59 pm
- About me: I'm having trouble with the trolley.
- Location: Marmite-upon-Toast, Wankershire
- Contact:
Re: Does science and rationalism always lead to scepticism?
That's simply the mechanism by which God's hand directs usAnimavore wrote:Or by the grace of electro-biochemical processes.tattuchu wrote:I can understand the Christian's opinion though don't agree with it. Consider our species. What are we? We're sacks of meat. Cut us open and that's all we are, just meat. And yet we think, we speak, we reason, we dream, we create. What animates us? How could this be possible except for the grace of God?
People think "queue" is just "q" followed by 4 silent letters.
But those letters are not silent.
They're just waiting their turn.
But those letters are not silent.
They're just waiting their turn.
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests