2012 US Election -- Round 2

[Warren Dew]

I find it amazing how Republicans keep talking about food stamps. I guess they're pretty low on other economic talking points considering how well the recovery has been going, but since when do Republicans give a flying fuck about helping people on food stamps?

Romney is all about prosperity, creating jobs and improving pay, which would help get people off food stamps. That so many people need food stamps just demonstrates how poorly the recovery is going.

[Ian]

Or it could be the lingering effects of the recession, maybe? You're right about Romney being for all those other things, except I still don't understand how he's going to accomplish all that considering the details are all kept in the dark.
Unemployment dropping, housing prices rising, consumer confidence way up, manufacturing up, home building starts way up, etc cetera et cetera... the trend lines are good.

[Warren Dew]

The percentage of population employed is lower than it's been for three decades and continuing to drop, median real income is down 8% under Obama and continuing to erode, poverty and welfare dependency are at multidecade highs. The "recovery" is leaving out the majority of Americans.

[Ian]

Quite a bit of that is out of context due to demographic trends. Have you noticed how the population keeps getting older? That's a trend that's been going on for a while and it's only going to increase in the coming years: the Baby Boomers have started retiring. And the percentage of people living under the poverty line hasn't moved much at all, even after decades. Nor is it going to for another couple decades either, I'm afraid, no matter who is running the government and when.
I think you're right about the recovery disproportionately benefiting the wealthiest few though - which is a pretty good reason for finally raising their taxes.

[Warren Dew]

Quite a bit of that is out of context due to demographic trends. Have you noticed how the population keeps getting older? That's a trend that's been going on for a while and it's only going to increase in the coming years: the Baby Boomers have started retiring.

Actually, the numbers don't bear that out. The baby boom started after the end of the war - 1946. The standard social security retirement age is 67; boomers start hitting that age in 2013. Baby boom retirements will be an issue in coming decades - all the more reason for Romney's medicare reforms as well as social security reforms - but it hasn't hit yet, and when it hits, will hit gradually.

Longevity increases have had a small effect, but only a small one. Of the approximately three percentage point drop in the employment to population ratio, only about half a percent is attributable to demographics. The rest is all due to Obama's terrible economic policies including his continuation of Bush's bad economic policies, most of which will be reversed by Romney.

And the percentage of people living under the poverty line hasn't moved much at all, even after decades. Nor is it going to for another couple decades either, I'm afraid, no matter who is running the government and when.

To the contrary, the number of people living in poverty is up about 20% Since 2007. It will most likely continue to rise if Obama remains in office.

I think you're right about the recovery disproportionately benefiting the wealthiest few though - which is a pretty good reason for finally raising their taxes.

Because tanking the economy and making those that are hurting even worse off is okay, as long as the moderately rich are suffering too? I'd prefer Romney's policies, that would make those who are suffering better off, without helping the rich very much if at all.

[macdoc]

You really have to wonder why with their dismal outcome the red states vote the way they do.....

Doesn't need much of a cross check for this - Repugly voters in bold

The top 10 wealthiest states
Where median income is highest
Rank State Median Income
1 New Hampshire $65,028
2 New Jersey $64,918
3 Connecticut $64,644
4 Maryland $63,828
5 Alaska $62,675
6 Virginia $61,126 < undecided
7 Utah $60,396
8 Massachusetts $59,732
9 Hawaii $58,469
10 Washington $58,404

The bottom 10 poorest states
Where median incomes are lowest
Rank State Median Income
1 Mississippi $35,693
2 Arkansas $37,987
3 West Virginia $39,170
4 Tennessee $40,034
5 South Carolina $41,548
6 Montana $41,587
7 Kentucky $41,828
8 Alabama $42,144
9 North Carolina $42,337
10 Louisiana $42,423

Why that's working out realllllly well for those citizens intending on voting Repugly.

2012 Presidential Election Interactive Map and History of the Electoral College

quite a record there for the right wing..

[Ian]

Quite a bit of that is out of context due to demographic trends. Have you noticed how the population keeps getting older? That's a trend that's been going on for a while and it's only going to increase in the coming years: the Baby Boomers have started retiring.

Actually, the numbers don't bear that out. The baby boom started after the end of the war - 1946. The standard social security retirement age is 67; boomers start hitting that age in 2013. Baby boom retirements will be an issue in coming decades - all the more reason for Romney's medicare reforms as well as social security reforms - but it hasn't hit yet, and when it hits, will hit gradually.

Longevity increases have had a small effect, but only a small one. Of the approximately three percentage point drop in the employment to population ratio, only about half a percent is attributable to demographics. The rest is all due to Obama's terrible economic policies including his continuation of Bush's bad economic policies, most of which will be reversed by Romney.

Do tell.
Okay, so: Bush bad, Obama bad because he's just like Bush (um, okay...), but Romney will make everything get better faster. Okee dokee.

And the percentage of people living under the poverty line hasn't moved much at all, even after decades. Nor is it going to for another couple decades either, I'm afraid, no matter who is running the government and when.

To the contrary, the number of people living in poverty is up about 20% Since 2007. It will most likely continue to rise if Obama remains in office..

You're full of it. Apart from your math being debateable, do you suppose the recession had something to do with that?? How about this number: the poverty rate rose 15% during Bush's tenure, and this is calculated before the recession really hit.

I think you're right about the recovery disproportionately benefiting the wealthiest few though - which is a pretty good reason for finally raising their taxes.

Because tanking the economy and making those that are hurting even worse off is okay, as long as the moderately rich are suffering too? I'd prefer Romney's policies, that would make those who are suffering better off, without helping the rich very much if at all.

What in the world logic are you using to get that? FFS. It reminds me of the Republican logic used during the Clinton years: don't dare raise taxes and try to balance the budget, the economy will go into the tank! That's what taxes do! And think about how bad the late 1990s were because of that madness!

[Ian]

Y'know Warren, once upon a time the Tea Party was a grassroots movement which objected to the stimulus and the growing debt. Pretty understandable. At some point it became about defending rock-bottom taxes for the rich. You might want to ask yourself how that happened.

Here's a thought to ponder: "It's easier to fool a man than it is to convince him that he's been fooled." -Mark Twain.

[Warren Dew]

Apart from your math being debateable, do you suppose the recession had something to do with that??

The recession has something to do with why it got worse in 2009. Obama's policies have everything to do with why it hasn't gotten better, and in fact has gotten even worse, since then.

How about this number: the poverty rate rose 15% during Bush's tenure, and this is calculated before the recession really hit.

So it's yet another example of how Obama took Bush's worst policies and doubled down on them. What else is new?

FFS. It reminds me of the Republican logic used during the Clinton years: don't dare raise taxes and try to balance the budget, the economy will go into the tank! That's what taxes do! And think about how bad the late 1990s were because of that madness!

The late 1990s boom occurred only after the tax rate cut of 1996.

[Tero]

[Warren Dew]

Y'know Warren, once upon a time the Tea Party was a grassroots movement which objected to the stimulus and the growing debt. Pretty understandable. At some point it became about defending rock-bottom taxes for the rich. You might want to ask yourself how that happened.

Actually Romney's plan cuts taxes mainly for the middle class, and marginally if at all for the rich. Or are you saying that's why the Tea Party is lukewarm about him? If so, I think you're mistaken.

Here's a thought to ponder: "It's easier to fool a man than it is to convince him that he's been fooled." -Mark Twain.

An effect the Obama campaign exploits well, as illustrated by your posts.

[kiki5711]

Aren't they different ways of serving?

One is going into actual combat.

The other one is spreading your religion. What do you think they do as missionaries?

Well, if you heard the interview on the View where that came from, you would see that it was Whoopi Goldberg acting like an ass. First, she stated that what she read was that Mormons can't serve in the military because of their religion. Ann Romney went on to explain that they can, and that many Mormons do. However, Mitt did not, and instead went "on Mission" and so did her sons, and that one of her sons is a doctor who treats veterans. She did not "equate" missions and military service at all.

But, the bottom line is -- so what? Obama didn't serve. Biden didn't serve. Both Biden and Romney got deferments. So what?

So what? NOTHING! You're the one that doesn't know the difference between serving your country and being a missionary spreading god's word of fairy tales.

[kiki5711]

I find it amazing how Republicans keep talking about food stamps. I guess they're pretty low on other economic talking points considering how well the recovery has been going, but since when do Republicans give a flying fuck about helping people on food stamps?

Romney is all about prosperity, creating jobs and improving pay, which would help get people off food stamps. That so many people need food stamps just demonstrates how poorly the recovery is going.

Prosperity? Where? in China?

You can't be serious!

Mitt's company championed "outsourcing", which made for job loss here, which made for more unemployment, which made for more need for gov. assistance, which made for more crime, and now HE SAYS THAT VERY percentage of people he DUMPED into a situation that forced them to become dependent on government assistance, HE HAS THE GALL TO now call them moochers!.

Now that takes "SELF GLOATING" to a whole new level.

[kiki5711]

Mitt Romney: The Great Deformer

Except Mitt Romney was not a businessman; he was a master financial speculator who bought, sold, flipped, and stripped businesses. He did not build enterprises the old-fashioned way—out of inspiration, perspiration, and a long slog in the free market fostering a new product, service, or process of production. Instead, he spent his 15 years raising debt in prodigious amounts on Wall Street so that Bain could purchase the pots and pans and castoffs of corporate America, leverage them to the hilt, gussy them up as reborn “roll-ups,” and then deliver them back to Wall Street for resale—the faster the better.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2 ... drain.html

[macdoc]

and binder man