The Atheism Plus "movement" -- good, bad, ugly?

[Audley Strange]

At this point I'm beginning to see it like Lord of the Flies meets a mental health facility.

[Clinton Huxley]

An woe betide you if you open a thread in the wrong bit of the forum. That's worse than kicking a lesbian.

[borealis]

"If you have received this card, you have done something wildly inapropriate..."

...like misspelling inappropriate?

[Jaygray]

http://atheismplus.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=795

which links to the origin here http://singlevoice.net/redyellow-card-project/



Howzabout alerting security/management of the location, if not the police, if there is assault taking place? This is just bizarre.

I hope those things are printed on rice-paper, because my first instinct would be to insist that the presenter eats it.

[Coito ergo sum]

It's a bit like Dungeons and Dragons

You can be 'main forum' level in some areas and 'education forum' level in others.

Someone should suggest that D&D system to them, without mentioning it by name.

Someone should go there and suggest as a "constructive alternative" that each person adopt or be assigned a category/disposition. Like -- people could "trigger warn" others of their propensity to say offensive things, right? "Chaotic Evil" means they really don't give a shit and they are offensive purposefully. Lawful Evil means they try to be honorable, but have their innate privilege causes them to act offensively. Lawful Good would signify that you can be relied upon to never say something rude or obnoxious. Chaotic Good means you mess up once in a while, but have good intentions. And, so on....that can be worn or signified by color on a badge, so people who want to avoid Evil characters can do so by looking at the badges.

Then, folks can also be assigned "offense points" which can be put on a badge, which shows how sensitive to offense you are. Someone with 100 offense points can take a lot of ribbing and rudeness without losing it. But, someone maybe with 5 offense points would lose it after someone wears an insulting t-shirt.

If I walk in, all Neutral Evil, and say something off-color, a Lawful Good Skepchick could hand me a note that says "5 offense points" or something. Then I can look at her card and see how many offense points are left. If I use up all her offense points, then she's considered "Offended" and I go up a level, showing that I have gotten worse.....

[Coito ergo sum]

At this point I'm beginning to see it like Lord of the Flies meets a mental health facility.

[hadespussercats]

From the creator's website (re Defcon cards)

If the opportunity arises to hand one out, simply chose which one you feel is appropriate, pull one out, and hand it to the perpetrator. At this point I recommend calmly walking away. You have said what you need to say and are under no obligation to discuss anything further. Congratulations! You’ve just carded someone!

Yes, this is exactly how swingers cards work. IIRC, the woman who received one of those was angry the couple didn't hang around and let her respond. But the point of the cards is to be non-confrontational.

Incidentally, I think the swingers shouldn't have handed Elise (I think that was her name?) that card at her meet and greet after speaking-- I don't think that sort of thing is appropriate unless the atmosphere is clearly social, and Elise was there to work. But I've discussed my feelings on that in the relevant thread, and I don't want to get into it again.

BUT-- the tactics here are exactly the same. Except that one can't actually walk away from an internet discussion, so the cards in fact become quite confrontational. In fact, they become more like a public shaming, than a "here, I don't like what you did but I don't want to make a scene-- please read this at your leisure" sort of thing.

[Coito ergo sum]

Oh, they clearly are intended as public shaming, and guilt by accusation.

[hadespussercats]

It's a bit like Dungeons and Dragons

You can be 'main forum' level in some areas and 'education forum' level in others.

Someone should suggest that D&D system to them, without mentioning it by name.

Someone should go there and suggest as a "constructive alternative" that each person adopt or be assigned a category/disposition. Like -- people could "trigger warn" others of their propensity to say offensive things, right? "Chaotic Evil" means they really don't give a shit and they are offensive purposefully. Lawful Evil means they try to be honorable, but have their innate privilege causes them to act offensively. Lawful Good would signify that you can be relied upon to never say something rude or obnoxious. Chaotic Good means you mess up once in a while, but have good intentions. And, so on....that can be worn or signified by color on a badge, so people who want to avoid Evil characters can do so by looking at the badges.

Then, folks can also be assigned "offense points" which can be put on a badge, which shows how sensitive to offense you are. Someone with 100 offense points can take a lot of ribbing and rudeness without losing it. But, someone maybe with 5 offense points would lose it after someone wears an insulting t-shirt.

If I walk in, all Neutral Evil, and say something off-color, a Lawful Good Skepchick could hand me a note that says "5 offense points" or something. Then I can look at her card and see how many offense points are left. If I use up all her offense points, then she's considered "Offended" and I go up a level, showing that I have gotten worse.....

Dork.

[Coito ergo sum]

Yup. :-)

But, wait -- I'm handing you a red card for calling me names based on denigration of one sex's genitals.... Atheism+ does not approve....

[Azathoth]

It's a bit like Dungeons and Dragons

You can be 'main forum' level in some areas and 'education forum' level in others.

Someone should suggest that D&D system to them, without mentioning it by name.

Someone should go there and suggest as a "constructive alternative" that each person adopt or be assigned a category/disposition. Like -- people could "trigger warn" others of their propensity to say offensive things, right? "Chaotic Evil" means they really don't give a shit and they are offensive purposefully. Lawful Evil means they try to be honorable, but have their innate privilege causes them to act offensively. Lawful Good would signify that you can be relied upon to never say something rude or obnoxious. Chaotic Good means you mess up once in a while, but have good intentions. And, so on....that can be worn or signified by color on a badge, so people who want to avoid Evil characters can do so by looking at the badges.

Then, folks can also be assigned "offense points" which can be put on a badge, which shows how sensitive to offense you are. Someone with 100 offense points can take a lot of ribbing and rudeness without losing it. But, someone maybe with 5 offense points would lose it after someone wears an insulting t-shirt.

If I walk in, all Neutral Evil, and say something off-color, a Lawful Good Skepchick could hand me a note that says "5 offense points" or something. Then I can look at her card and see how many offense points are left. If I use up all her offense points, then she's considered "Offended" and I go up a level, showing that I have gotten worse.....

All well and good until a chaos neutral turns up

[Coito ergo sum]

They ought to tag them with a red "H" when they harass, and any future transgressions would result in banishment.

[hadespussercats]

Yup. :-)

But, wait -- I'm handing you a red card for calling me names based on denigration of one sex's genitals.... Atheism+ does not approve....

Is that what "dork" comes from? Dorks and norks?

Anyway, thanks for the card. You're sweet! Red's my color.

[Red Celt]

They ought to tag them with a red "H" when they harass

[Bella Fortuna]

From the creator's website (re Defcon cards)

If the opportunity arises to hand one out, simply chose which one you feel is appropriate, pull one out, and hand it to the perpetrator. At this point I recommend calmly walking away. You have said what you need to say and are under no obligation to discuss anything further. Congratulations! You’ve just carded someone!

Yes, this is exactly how swingers cards work. IIRC, the woman who received one of those was angry the couple didn't hang around and let her respond. But the point of the cards is to be non-confrontational.

Incidentally, I think the swingers shouldn't have handed Elise (I think that was her name?) that card at her meet and greet after speaking-- I don't think that sort of thing is appropriate unless the atmosphere is clearly social, and Elise was there to work. But I've discussed my feelings on that in the relevant thread, and I don't want to get into it again.

BUT-- the tactics here are exactly the same. Except that one can't actually walk away from an internet discussion, so the cards in fact become quite confrontational. In fact, they become more like a public shaming, than a "here, I don't like what you did but I don't want to make a scene-- please read this at your leisure" sort of thing.

I fully agree that the swingers' card thing was out of place and they shouldn't have done that to her. I think if someone had done that to me I'd have laughed it off with a head-shake, but I suppose that's beside the point.

These cards, far from being non-confrontational, simply drip with self-righteous passive-aggressiveness. The equation of possible real harassment or assault with possibly being mildly hit on (and everything in between) is a mockery of the former.