How do we attract Skepchicks to sign up here?

[Audley Strange]

I'm not sure if you're serious or having another pop at my spelling punctuation and grammar.

[colubridae]

I'm not sure if you're serious or having another pop at my spelling punctuation and grammar.

Absolutely not.

My background has not exactly precluded prose, but it was never necessary. I was a ‘computer programmer’ from the days before PCs. I ‘managed’ mainframe systems, it used to be called software engineering. Whatever, prose was unnecessary, any ability I had quickly atrophied.

[mistermack]

AronRa has joined the chorus of prominent white guys speaking out against "hatred directed at women." http://skepchick.org/2012/08/speaking-o ... n-aron-ra/

I respect AronRa tremendously. I read his piece carefully.

I agree with every word of it. It is exclusively focused on things like threats and extreme vitriol.

I thought it was drivel, and didn't come away with much "respect" for the guy.

It's all based on lies, and if he can't see that, then he's incredibly stupid.

If you take the piss out of some woman's published thoughts, that's not "hate" and it's not "directed at women".
Even the title of the crusade is a massive lie.

Firstly, joking or mocking opinions is not hate. Hate is gassing people, and removing their gold fillings.
To use the word "hate" in the context of these complaints is dishonest, a lie, bullshit, verbal diahorrea, etc.
I "hate" that kind of dishonesty.

And if you make a comment about one woman, or about skeptchicks, and that is described as "directed against women" then that is also a big fat lie. It's directed AT A woman's OPINIONS. Or those of a bunch. Not "against women".

If they can't even devise a slogan that doesn't contain a pack of lies, then they are not worth reading, or listening to.
And if AronRa is ok with that, then he's either as dumb, or as dishonest as they are.

[hadespussercats]

Audley, I agree that equality entails a certain amount of toughness, because equal people strive to take care of themselves. But everyone, male and female, need help, even protection, from others from time to time. I don't think it's wrong to ask for it, or to define the behavior that constitutes respect for oneself and to seek that treatment from others.

It's the method that bothers me-- the idea that in this case women (in theory, any group) can't speak up for themselves and call bullshit, that we can't as individuals have different standards of behavior we find acceptable. There's nothing wrong with Atheism+ creating a community for themselves, their own little Decameron to hide out from the "diseased" minds of the rest of us. It's their right to say we play by their rules if we want to hang out there. I just don't cotton to such a totalitarian atmosphere-- particularly when I'm explicitly being told that if I don't buy their product I'm a failure as a woman.

[JacksSmirkingRevenge]

[Coito ergo sum]

LOL -- if Sexism is a Handicap, then by law sexists must be reasonably accommodated....

[Audley Strange]

Audley, I agree that equality entails a certain amount of toughness, because equal people strive to take care of themselves. But everyone, male and female, need help, even protection, from others from time to time. I don't think it's wrong to ask for it, or to define the behavior that constitutes respect for oneself and to seek that treatment from others.

It's the method that bothers me-- the idea that in this case women (in theory, any group) can't speak up for themselves and call bullshit, that we can't as individuals have different standards of behavior we find acceptable. There's nothing wrong with Atheism+ creating a community for themselves, their own little Decameron to hide out from the "diseased" minds of the rest of us. It's their right to say we play by their rules if we want to hang out there. I just don't cotton to such a totalitarian atmosphere-- particularly when I'm explicitly being told that if I don't buy their product I'm a failure as a woman.

No I don't think it's wrong to ask for help either, I think it is wrong to create or exaggerate an issue and then demand help aggressively as if one should be entitled to it and maligning others for not helping and inevitably storming off in a huff decrying people as misogynists and such. No discussion. "We're right, shut up!"

It's the method that bothers most people Hades, but it's only now that it's been made manifest, it's been brewing for a while. My issue is that they have purlioned atheism and attempted to use it to brand their hodge podge of naively considered political dogma which has all the hallmarks of a cult. I resent the fact that they are deliberately using the term to apply to something other than the disbelief of Gods, but attaching to it the most spineless pitiful liberal contradictory nonsense.

Other than that, well Liberal crackpots are no different from Socialist Crackpots or Sola Scriptura Crackpots. They were pretty fucked up before they started believing their horseshit, it just made their craziness more focussed.

[Gerald McGrew]

This is common in almost all of the Skepchick "speaking out against hatred directed at women" pieces. They all refer to serious stuff like threats of violence, vitriolic hatred, and extreme, scary stuff. Yet the high profile examples the Skepchick whine about are milquetoast platitudes and paltry little discourtesies.

Reminds me of one of the last posts I made at FtB. In a discussion of this whole issue, a person was trying to get me to agree that the various incidents of note (elevatorgate, the t-shirt, TF gnawing on a leg, etc.) were important enough to speak out against and do something about. I responded with something like, "You know what would advance this conversation? An actual case of sexual harassment at an atheist conference. In the absence of that, there really isn't much to talk about, is there?"

[Strontium Dog]

[Coito ergo sum]

This is common in almost all of the Skepchick "speaking out against hatred directed at women" pieces. They all refer to serious stuff like threats of violence, vitriolic hatred, and extreme, scary stuff. Yet the high profile examples the Skepchick whine about are milquetoast platitudes and paltry little discourtesies.

Reminds me of one of the last posts I made at FtB. In a discussion of this whole issue, a person was trying to get me to agree that the various incidents of note (elevatorgate, the t-shirt, TF gnawing on a leg, etc.) were important enough to speak out against and do something about. I responded with something like, "You know what would advance this conversation? An actual case of sexual harassment at an atheist conference. In the absence of that, there really isn't much to talk about, is there?"

I imagine you were banned after that. I have posted the following on Carrier's FtB page about four hours ago:

Interested Bystander says: Your comment is awaiting moderation.
August 29, 2012 at 12:05 pm
I have a question.

You say, “siding with Atheism+ only requires that you are willing to repudiate sexism, racism, and homophobia (and other correlated bigotries), and endorse the values of reasonableness, compassion, and integrity.”

I do repudiate sexism, racism and homophobia, and other correlated bigotries. I endorse the values of reasonableness, compassion, and integrity.

However, I do not think that parody ceramic jewelry and “I am not a Skepchick” t-shirts amount to sexism or bigotry. I do not agree that the swinger couple that handed out a swinger business card were harassing anyone. I also don’t agree that late night invitations for coffee in a hotel room, even after the invitee gave a speech about sexism, amount to harassment or sexism or the like. I also do not agree that sexism, racism and bigotry are large problems in the atheist and skeptic communities, as I think any rare incidents that do arise are either minor or handled promptly or appropriately.

Am I welcome or not welcome in Atheism+? Am I permitted to hold those views, and voice those views, and still be part of Atheism+?

Thanks for your time.

Reply

http://freethoughtblogs.com/carrier/arc ... ment-21232

LOL - as of right now, it is still "awaiting moderation."

This will be a good example of what they find inappropriate. I can't imagine what would be improper about my inquiry. But, I am betting it never makes it on there, and they'll characterize it as trolling or something.

[Audley Strange]

Apropos nothing.

[Coito ergo sum]

That's offensive.

[Doubtdispelled]

Funny, I hear about "Chill Girls".

The top entry from Urban Dictionary:

1. to calm down
2. cool, tight, wicked, sick, sweet, nice, etc.
3. to hang out
4. to be easy going
5. a little bit cold
6. its ok
1. Laquesha: YOU FUCKIN HOE BAG I HATE YOU DIE BITCH
Cassie: wow chill

2. Dave: check out my new sick ride
Steve: yeah thats pretty chill

3. Melissa: what are you up to tonite?
kiersten: chillin

4. alexa: your mom smokes weed with you?
cassie: yeah, shes real chill about that kinda stuff

5. mother: its chilly out today so wear a jacket!

6. michelle: im sooo sorry!
sarah: its chill

Number 5 from the same place:

When defining a chill person, one must take into account that a chill peson is not someone who is cool all of the time. An example of a chill perosn is someone who does whatever they feel like doing, not following crowds. Many, not all, but many have friends in all social groups and don't care who sees them hanging with who, whether it be the athletes, the skaters, the posers, or the nerds. They may play video games, but that is not to be frowned upon. They may not be the smartest around, or the best sweet talker, but they know how to have a good time by being who they are and being with whom they are friends, not dating the popular ones because they are popular themselves or picking on the nerds because their social status is hurt if they make friends with them. Most girls appreciate a man who stays as themselves and like the girl for who she is. Be chill like described here and you can be liked by anyone.
John: Look that guy's a fag. He hangs with the nerds.
Jim: Shut up. You're the fag. Jack's chill. Get it in your head that you can be friends with whom you want

What the hell is so wrong with those qualities in a woman?

That's just chill, Robert.

The actual phrase Chill Girl hasn't made it into the Urban Dictionary yet.

I like Greta Christina's definition....

There's definitely a phenomenon of women -- whether consciously or un- -- denying sexism/ misogyny, and even perpetuating it in ugly ways, in order to gain male approval.

because it fits exactly with something I had noticed, even before I knew it could be called a 'phenomenon' or indeed was being given a name.

Just thought you'd like to know.

[hadespussercats]

Funny, I hear about "Chill Girls".

The top entry from Urban Dictionary:

1. to calm down
2. cool, tight, wicked, sick, sweet, nice, etc.
3. to hang out
4. to be easy going
5. a little bit cold
6. its ok
1. Laquesha: YOU FUCKIN HOE BAG I HATE YOU DIE BITCH
Cassie: wow chill

2. Dave: check out my new sick ride
Steve: yeah thats pretty chill

3. Melissa: what are you up to tonite?
kiersten: chillin

4. alexa: your mom smokes weed with you?
cassie: yeah, shes real chill about that kinda stuff

5. mother: its chilly out today so wear a jacket!

6. michelle: im sooo sorry!
sarah: its chill

Number 5 from the same place:

When defining a chill person, one must take into account that a chill peson is not someone who is cool all of the time. An example of a chill perosn is someone who does whatever they feel like doing, not following crowds. Many, not all, but many have friends in all social groups and don't care who sees them hanging with who, whether it be the athletes, the skaters, the posers, or the nerds. They may play video games, but that is not to be frowned upon. They may not be the smartest around, or the best sweet talker, but they know how to have a good time by being who they are and being with whom they are friends, not dating the popular ones because they are popular themselves or picking on the nerds because their social status is hurt if they make friends with them. Most girls appreciate a man who stays as themselves and like the girl for who she is. Be chill like described here and you can be liked by anyone.
John: Look that guy's a fag. He hangs with the nerds.
Jim: Shut up. You're the fag. Jack's chill. Get it in your head that you can be friends with whom you want

What the hell is so wrong with those qualities in a woman?

That's just chill, Robert.

The actual phrase Chill Girl hasn't made it into the Urban Dictionary yet.

I like Greta Christina's definition....

There's definitely a phenomenon of women -- whether consciously or un- -- denying sexism/ misogyny, and even perpetuating it in ugly ways, in order to gain male approval.

because it fits exactly with something I had noticed, even before I knew it could be called a 'phenomenon' or indeed was being given a name.

Just thought you'd like to know.

Though as I recall, Greta Christina has also said (in a quote I read from A+ forum) that in cases where she was discussing her sex-positivism/enjoyment of porn, and other controversial pursuits, that she was very frustrated by the fact that other feminists were so ready to apply the "chill girl" label to her-- that she couldn't possibly really enjoy those things, that she was actually brainwashed by the patriarchy, etc.

She said it was very frustrating.

So, it can be a useful tag, or a limiting one-- even according to feminists at the forefront of A+.

[Audley Strange]

I think it's an awful thing to call someone. It reminds me of "sheeple" or "house nigger".