Thunderfoot hacking FtB - Allegedly

[Coito ergo sum]

Mailman was likely always intended to run mail lists that were free to join and leave, and only secondarily running private invite-only lists.

http://freethoughtblogs.com/lousycanuck ... ment-75731

FtB chose to use a system that wasn't confidential to start a confidential mailing list. That's their mistake.

Also, look - the had already given Thunderf00t access to everything before he was kicked off. So, everything he received from FtB while he was on the list was still in his computer, handheld device, iPad, on the Cloud, backed up to an online backup, and/or on an external hardrive somewhere -- as are all those emails on similar systems of every other person on that list. So, what "harm" came from him logging on again after he was kicked off? He already HAD the identities of all those confidential bloggers. News Flash: so does EVERYONE on that confidential mailing list....

Reminder to FtB -- be careful who you boot off the list next. I am sure most everyone is backing up all those emails, so they have insurance...

[Pappa]

First I don't give a fuck about ThunderfOOt, but you seem to be arguing that two wrongs make a right. Well you can fuck off with that. The mosque of freefromthoughtblogs are a bunch of middle class PC, right on wankerthons. They tried to get atheists sacked in real life because they didn't share their ideology and so they can suck my dick as far as I'm concerned and if you support these wankstains then the same goes for you too.

Respect has to be earned, though it probably explains most of your stupidity if you give it away so freely.

DaveDodo007 this is a reminder to please play nice and stay within our rules.

[Robert_S]

IMO, TF fucked up there. It isn't ethically sound to have done that. Matter of fact it's kinda creepy, but not in a rapey way,

It was more like gate crashing a party than a burglary though and some of the FtBloggers are really milking it.

[Randydeluxe]

I consider the act of using an exploit to re-access a private mailing list to be a threatening act. Full stop. My front door doesn't have to be locked for me to feel threatened if you walk into my home uninvited.

[rachelbean]

Hyperbolic analogy is silly, but they usually are.

[Azathoth]

One of the reasons y'all rub people like me the wrong way is because you can liken what TF did to someone breaking into your home.

It is just so bizarre, you know?

More reasonable may be to talk about someone throwing a tantrum. His behavior is embarrassing enough without having to liken it to behavior that is beyond the pale. I really think it is important to use analogies that aren't hyperbolic if your point isn't humor. I don't think you're trying to be funny.

He entered a place where he had no right to be, violated the private space of others, spent weeks surreptitiously recording private conversations, made copies of private personal documents...no I don't think the analogy is bizarre at all.

If you really think there's no harm here why don't you give me your e-mail password?

OK

greatoldone1878@hotmail.com

pw:bollocks1

takes all of 5 minutes to make a throwaway if you have issues about your identity. If you are too stupid to do it you deserve to get doxxed

[tantamount]

I take a different approach; I try to give everybody respect until they do something to lose it. Which is what happened with Thunderfoot.

Look, you're obviously someone from FTB, who has newly joined rationalia and trying to evangelize for FTB.

You say you "try to give everybody respect until they do something to lose it." Fine, I'll take that at face value. That happens to be my approach also. What won't work though is trying to portray FTB as "giv[ing] everybody respect until they do something to lose it."

FTB is a place where, as soon as you deviate from their (bizarrely skewed) norm, you get comments directed to you in the style of:

Hence I conclude that you are either massively dumb or a dirty fucking liar.

You are a liar. And you don’t know what the fuck math you’re talking about. You piece of shit.
Anger is an appropriate response to sexism and mansplaining. You are a condescending piece of shit. Fuck you.

Go back to MRAville you flaming fucking idiot.

That is also a lie. You are a liar [...] You are a piece of shit liar.

Fuck you, you petrified lump of diseased camel-jism.

What’s the matter, fuckbrained worthless goddamn piece of shit, you can’t think straight?

Your word as a liberturd is considered lies and bullshit, which is all liberturds offer in discourse.

So... Thanks but until PZ or Ed Brayton cleans up the filth that is FTB's commentariat, FTB is in quarantine. Normal people don't belong there. From your comments, you probably don't belong there either.

[Coito ergo sum]

I consider the act of using an exploit to re-access a private mailing list to be a threatening act. Full stop. My front door doesn't have to be locked for me to feel threatened if you walk into my home uninvited.

Yes, but this wasn't a home. This was an email distribution list that requires someone to put their email in and get on the list. Lots of people are apparently on this list.

It's supposedly a confidential list, but anyone who is on the list is privy to all the "confidential" emails, and they can obviously keep those on their computer forever, if they like. So, the most that T-Foot accessed were emails for the short period of time after he "sneaked" back onto the list.

If the nervousness is that he was able to find out people's emails and identities because they are freer with that stuff in those confidential emails -- well, he already had that access BEFORE he got kicked off.

The only thing that getting access to the list again got him was access to the behind-the-scenes emails where FtB-ers were scheming to destroy him and make him a pariah. Their identities he could get from the emails he received while he was an approved blogger for FtB.

This is what the FtB-ers who are free with info on that list need to understand. Whoever is the next person they kick off and berate already knows who they are.

[tantamount]

Well A Hermit, I admit you have a point there. A few FtB folks might not be the measure by which to make sweeping statements about the entire network.

I mean, a network has a lot of different members and making broad general statements might cause "splash damage". Kinda like judging an entire forum by one thread.

Yeah, but the Commentariat is the same, no? You'll get the same "you shitbagging mansplaining fucktard halfwit" when commenting any of the wonderful 36 blogs there.

Hermit seems to be trying to hide among the numbers, now. "Don't blame us for those few exceptions." Cmon, PZ is FTB. PZ probably gets the majority of the site hits, too. This running apologia of FTB by Hermit just won't wash. (When's he going to lose his patience and give up?)

[Coito ergo sum]

It's like the blogger -- Vacula, I think his name is -- he asked to see evidence of the "threats" that caused Ophelia Benson to cancel her appearance at TAM, and Ophelia and others told him to "go fuck himself."

[A Hermit]

FTB is a place where, as soon as you deviate from their (bizarrely skewed) norm, you get comments directed to you in the style of:

Hence I conclude that you are either massively dumb or a dirty fucking liar...

And you think this is a problem unique to FtB?

Right here in this thread I've had comments directed at me calling me a "wankstain", deriding my "stupidity" and telling me to suck cock. When I first came here (from Steph Zvan's blog, not PZ's) to object to the rape a skepchick "joke" I got similar shit thrown at me.

So what's your point?

[A Hermit]

OK

greatoldone1878@hotmail.com

pw:bollocks1

takes all of 5 minutes to make a throwaway if you have issues about your identity.

Except not everyone on that listserv had the foresight in the beginning to use a throwaway. If you think it's no big deal give me the real thing. There's also the question of the personal matters discussed on a supposedly confidential site. Are you going to give me access to that kind of thing? If it's really no big deal you shouldn't have problem turning over the keys...

If you are too stupid to do it you deserve to get doxxed

Are you actually saying that Natalie deserves to be outed, possibly fired, physically harassed or assaulted because she was naive a couple of years ago? Are you one of those people who thinks a woman who dresses "provocatively" deserves to be raped? `cause that's the argument you're making here. Are you really that lacking in simple human empathy and compassion?

[A Hermit]

It's like the blogger -- Vacula, I think his name is -- he asked to see evidence of the "threats" that caused Ophelia Benson to cancel her appearance at TAM, and Ophelia and others told him to "go fuck himself."

You're ignoring Vacula's long history of trolling Benson's blog...popping in and basically calling her a liar like he did got the reaction it deserved IMHO.

And explain to me how this has any bearing on T-Foot's creepy ethical lapse?

[A Hermit]

Well A Hermit, I admit you have a point there. A few FtB folks might not be the measure by which to make sweeping statements about the entire network.

I mean, a network has a lot of different members and making broad general statements might cause "splash damage". Kinda like judging an entire forum by one thread.

Yeah, but the Commentariat is the same, no? You'll get the same "you shitbagging mansplaining fucktard halfwit" when commenting any of the wonderful 36 blogs there.

No you won't. Try it on Fincke's blog and see what happens.

And honestly, most of those kinds of comments are directed at known trolls like the bunch who like to "joke" about kicking Ophelia Benson in the cunt...

But SHE's the bully...?

[Azathoth]

Except not everyone on that listserv had the foresight in the beginning to use a throwaway.

and there was no mechanism to change it later?

If you think it's no big deal give me the real deal. There's also the question of the personal matters discussed on a supposedly confidential site. Are you going to give me access to that kind of thing? If it's no big deal you shouldn't have problem turning over the keys...

If there weren't financial details on there I would. I write nothing down that I wouldn't want to enter the public domain. You can have it without the password billhayhurst1977@gmail.com

Are you actually saying that Natalie deserves to be outed, possibly fired, physically harassed or assaulted because she was naive a couple of years ago?

No, but she does need to be more careful with her information if that is what she fears might happen. It is very unlikely to this time seeing as her information was never released. Life lesson learned for her.

Are you one of those people who thinks a woman who dresses "provocatively" deserves to be raped? `cause that's the argument you're making here. Are you really that lacking in simple human empathy and compassion?

Typical baboon trick. I said nothing of the sort and you know it. Information security and rape are not even comparable categories. My views on one have no bearing on my views on the other.