Missouri puts prayers back in skool...

[Clinton Huxley]

Was reading something about dolphin embryos the other day. They start to grow leg buds, as the gene for legs are still present from their terrestrial ancestors but then the leg buds get re-absorbed. Not very intelligent but just the kind of fudge you'd expect to see from evolution.

You can find kludge in just about any genome. It's one of the surest signs on non-design. Or perhaps design by a drooling idiot.

"Republican Design"

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Was reading something about dolphin embryos the other day. They start to grow leg buds, as the gene for legs are still present from their terrestrial ancestors but then the leg buds get re-absorbed. Not very intelligent but just the kind of fudge you'd expect to see from evolution.

You can find kludge in just about any genome. It's one of the surest signs on non-design. Or perhaps design by a drooling idiot.

"Republican Design"

/redundant

[Tero]

Aside from the sci fi designer of Seth, fundies have the idea that a scientists should have an experiment where a fish gives birth to a reptile which gives birth to a mammal that climbs a tree. In a couple of generations. The males somehow tag along.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Aside from the sci fi designer of Seth, fundies have the idea that a scientists should have an experiment where a fish gives birth to a reptile which gives birth to a mammal that climbs a tree. In a couple of generations. The males somehow tag along.

"If evolution is true, where the first whatchamcallit find a mate. Checkmate atheists!"

[Clinton Huxley]

Aside from the sci fi designer of Seth, fundies have the idea that a scientists should have an experiment where a fish gives birth to a reptile which gives birth to a mammal that climbs a tree. In a couple of generations. The males somehow tag along.

"If evolution is true, where the first whatchamcallit find a mate. Checkmate atheists!"

I remember Bodhitharta pushing that line on RDF. Part of Bodhitharta's Law

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Aside from the sci fi designer of Seth, fundies have the idea that a scientists should have an experiment where a fish gives birth to a reptile which gives birth to a mammal that climbs a tree. In a couple of generations. The males somehow tag along.

"If evolution is true, where the first whatchamcallit find a mate. Checkmate atheists!"

I remember Bodhitharta pushing that line on RDF. Part of Bodhitharta's Law

I hope that person used better English.

[Clinton Huxley]

Aside from the sci fi designer of Seth, fundies have the idea that a scientists should have an experiment where a fish gives birth to a reptile which gives birth to a mammal that climbs a tree. In a couple of generations. The males somehow tag along.

"If evolution is true, where the first whatchamcallit find a mate. Checkmate atheists!"

I remember Bodhitharta pushing that line on RDF. Part of Bodhitharta's Law

I hope that person used better English.

Worse, as I recall

[klr]

Aside from the sci fi designer of Seth, fundies have the idea that a scientists should have an experiment where a fish gives birth to a reptile which gives birth to a mammal that climbs a tree. In a couple of generations. The males somehow tag along.

"If evolution is true, where the first whatchamcallit find a mate. Checkmate atheists!"

I remember Bodhitharta pushing that line on RDF. Part of Bodhitharta's Law

I hope that person used better English.

Worse, as I recall

Well, it wasn't his first language. Not that it excused the tripe he peddled, complete with many-nested quote trees.

[Clinton Huxley]

That was a golden age of insanity. People like Seth aren't really trying.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

That was a golden age of insanity. People like Seth aren't really trying.

Maybe if we jangled our keys at him he'd go away.

[Seth]

Let's have one testable prediction made by Seth's "theory".

Here's one: Through the use of intelligent design it is possible to manipulate DNA to guide the course of natural evolution down specific pathways.

Now find an intelligence capable of manipulating DNA somewhere in the universe(s) that has manipulated DNA to guide the course of evolution. Perfectly testable. Not currently achievable however.

Oh, wait, it IS achievable and that particular research has been done and the results are conclusively positive: Intelligence capable of manipulating DNA to guide the course of evolution has been observed...right here on this planet...at the Monsanto labs and elsewhere.

Therefore, such a thing is not only possible, but has been observed in fact and is therefore a scientific fact.

The remaining questions include, "are there other intelligences in the universe(s) capable of the same level, or more sophisticated manipulations of DNA to guide the course of evolution existing today, or is there physical evidence of such an intelligence existing some time in the past?"

The answer is a qualified "yes." The existence of life on Earth shows that such intervention cannot be excluded as a cause for the forms of life on Earth without valid evidence that no such intervention did, or could have occurred.

Our human inability to detect such an entity or intervention at present does not impeach the theory or the testability of the proposition, it merely highlights the primitive nature of our scientific knowledge and understanding.

[Seth]

That was a golden age of insanity. People like Seth aren't really trying.

Maybe if we jangled our keys at him he'd go away.

Such weak intellects. Rather than refute my reasoning and logic, you both typically resort to personal insults. Clearly you've lost the debate but are afraid to admit it.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

It cannot be excluded that we're riding on the back of a space tortise either. But that would be stupid.

[Clinton Huxley]

Let's have one testable prediction made by Seth's "theory".

Here's one: Through the use of intelligent design it is possible to manipulate DNA to guide the course of natural evolution down specific pathways.

Now find an intelligence capable of manipulating DNA somewhere in the universe(s) that has manipulated DNA to guide the course of evolution. Perfectly testable. Not currently achievable however.

Oh, wait, it IS achievable and that particular research has been done and the results are conclusively positive: Intelligence capable of manipulating DNA to guide the course of evolution has been observed...right here on this planet...at the Monsanto labs and elsewhere.

Therefore, such a thing is not only possible, but has been observed in fact and is therefore a scientific fact.

The remaining questions include, "are there other intelligences in the universe(s) capable of the same level, or more sophisticated manipulations of DNA to guide the course of evolution existing today, or is there physical evidence of such an intelligence existing some time in the past?"

The answer is a qualified "yes." The existence of life on Earth shows that such intervention cannot be excluded as a cause for the forms of life on Earth without valid evidence that no such intervention did, or could have occurred.

Our human inability to detect such an entity or intervention at present does not impeach the theory or the testability of the proposition, it merely highlights the primitive nature of our scientific knowledge and understanding.

If an infinite number of monkeys put an infinite number of palms to each and every one of their infinite faces, there would still not be enough face palm. You have created a rather dull "Just So" story. I've asked for a prediction of your theory. Predict something we should find in the fossil record, or in current DNA, or wherever you like, regardless of whether we can currently detect it. Peter Higgs postulated the Higgs Boson. No-one could detect it when he did that. Took a while for experimental science to catch up.

[Tero]

Seth, your hypothesis is bunk. Things are proposed: irreducible complexity. Debunked, every case.

This whole thing occurs because nothing is designed for the final form where it looks useful. Junk is recycled.