Thunderfoot hacking FtB - Allegedly

[DaveD]

regarding your "unautherised means" hacking thing.... So if say Pappa or another admin on this site informed you that you could no longer visit here, but you then proceeded to post, you would be guilty of hacking? Really? What if you didn't even post, but just looked at the website? Hacking? By your description above, it would have to be, as you accessed their server after being told you could no longer visit the site.

hold on, before you gallop away.
we're not talking about posting on a blog.
what thunderfoot did was re-login to the listserv after he'd been denied access.

blog =/= listserv
posting on a blog =/= gaining unauthorized access to a listserv

logging in =/= hacking.
Once, on the old Dawkins forum, somebody fucked up and allowed access to everybody to all of the forum, including Admin threads. I quickly realised what had happened and sent a flurry of PMs to several mods.
I stopped reading those threads right away but, had I seen anything about tracking someone down and getting them fired from their job, I would have considered it my duty to alert the target, and I would have collected as much evidence as I could while I had the opportunity.
It looks very much as if the people responsible for the running of FTB has made a similar fuckup and have failed to properly block Thunderf00t, and are crying "HACKER" to cover their tracks.

[pErvinalia]

regarding your "unautherised means" hacking thing.... So if say Pappa or another admin on this site informed you that you could no longer visit here, but you then proceeded to post, you would be guilty of hacking? Really? What if you didn't even post, but just looked at the website? Hacking? By your description above, it would have to be, as you accessed their server after being told you could no longer visit the site.

hold on, before you gallop away.
we're not talking about posting on a blog.
what thunderfoot did was re-login to the listserv after he'd been denied access.

Same as you logging into the Ratz web server after you have been denied access.

[Sean Hayden]

[tantamount]

Same as you logging into the Ratz web server after you have been denied access.

What? You mean if I just re-log into a blog under a new name after my old name is banned, just like any member of the public could do?

Well, AGAIN, you've equated BLOG REGISTRATION with a LISTSERV. Which I'm sure thunderfoot's lawyer can do. Personally, I'm not persuaded.

But I think the fact that he's using the OLD authorization, which was still valid, will get him off of any prosecution effort. Because it fuzzies it up enough that a prosecutor wouldn't want to waste his time on it.

[PsychoSerenity]

So he clicked on a link in an email, in his own inbox, that they sent to him, and then they sent him a whole load more emails. That's not so much hacking as receiving spam.

[pErvinalia]

Same as you logging into the Ratz web server after you have been denied access.

What? You mean if I just re-log into a blog under a new name after my old name is banned, just like any member of the public could do?

But his username wasn't banned, was it? Didn't he log in with the same name, due to an error at ftb's end? If that's the case, then it is no different than you logging into the Ratz server after being told you weren't allowed to any more. That's not hacking. Hell, if it is, i'm guilty of it just 2 or so weeks ago at ratskep where the suspension automation didn't kick in properly the first time, after which I then re-logged in.

Well, AGAIN, you've equated BLOG REGISTRATION with a LISTSERV. Which I'm sure thunderfoot's lawyer can do. Personally, I'm not persuaded.

But I think the fact that he's using the OLD authorization, which was still valid, will get him off of any prosecution effort. Because it fuzzies it up enough that a prosecutor wouldn't want to waste his time on it.

Probably best to leave the lawyering to the real lawyers.

[tantamount]

But his username wasn't banned, was it? Didn't he log in with the same name, due to an error at ftb's end? If that's the case, then it is no different than you logging into the Ratz server after being told you weren't allowed to any more. That's not hacking. Hell, if it is, i'm guilty of it just 2 or so weeks ago at ratskep where the suspension automation didn't kick in properly the first time, after which I then re-logged in.

well, we both seem to agree that he is not prosecutable.

[Badger3k]

regarding your "unautherised means" hacking thing.... So if say Pappa or another admin on this site informed you that you could no longer visit here, but you then proceeded to post, you would be guilty of hacking? Really? What if you didn't even post, but just looked at the website? Hacking? By your description above, it would have to be, as you accessed their server after being told you could no longer visit the site.

hold on, before you gallop away.
we're not talking about posting on a blog.
what thunderfoot did was re-login to the listserv after he'd been denied access.

blog =/= listserv
posting on a blog =/= gaining unauthorized access to a listserv

the only legal fine-tuning will be how the federal hacking law applies to listservs, as opposed plain email accounts. and, again, how prosecutable TF is, since he previously had access. his defense might be, "Hey, I was just innocently relogging in again-- and i got access through the original authorization email-- it's not my fault if they intended that i remain unauthorized and just didn't shut the door." Of course, this is belied by his thorough online confession. thunderfoot should seriously shut up now.

plain email account hacking is clear: the Sarah Palin hacker got 12 months for his exploit.

From reading the lawyers/pseudo-lawyers all over the internet, harm has to be proven, though. Given what was "hacked", despite all the talk about "sensitive information", what was released? As I said before, TF had the information already - he was a legal member and had access to all the email/IP info already. According to him all personal info was removed, which should be easy to prove if the recipient speaks up. Plus, there is a difference between a Vice Presidential candidate and a few minor bloggers on a bit network. People have been saying this would never go to trial for criminal charges, although it's always possible that civil charges could result. I have no idea on the last sentence, though, but that's what many who claim to be lawyers are saying. No idea on reliability, so caveat emptor.

[Badger3k]

regarding your "unautherised means" hacking thing.... So if say Pappa or another admin on this site informed you that you could no longer visit here, but you then proceeded to post, you would be guilty of hacking? Really? What if you didn't even post, but just looked at the website? Hacking? By your description above, it would have to be, as you accessed their server after being told you could no longer visit the site.

hold on, before you gallop away.
we're not talking about posting on a blog.
what thunderfoot did was re-login to the listserv after he'd been denied access.

blog =/= listserv
posting on a blog =/= gaining unauthorized access to a listserv

logging in =/= hacking.
Once, on the old Dawkins forum, somebody fucked up and allowed access to everybody to all of the forum, including Admin threads. I quickly realised what had happened and sent a flurry of PMs to several mods.
I stopped reading those threads right away but, had I seen anything about tracking someone down and getting them fired from their job, I would have considered it my duty to alert the target, and I would have collected as much evidence as I could while I had the opportunity.
It looks very much as if the people responsible for the running of FTB has made a similar fuckup and have failed to properly block Thunderf00t, and are crying "HACKER" to cover their tracks.

I think it's more about covering their asses and their reputations. They get together and gossip and plan their collective strategy in their backchannel email, which is something they've denied (why?). So now when it's revealed that they do, they are embarrassed and have to distract people somehow.

[tantamount]

From reading the lawyers/pseudo-lawyers all over the internet, harm has to be proven, though. [...]

First, TF is not going to be prosecuted and if he were, he could get off, so this is all moot.

However, it's absolutely not true that harm has to be proven. If you do cause harm, it's obviously much, much worse. But, no, harm does not have to have resulted from your illegal access to make it actionable. It just means you've racked up more counts on the indictment.

As I said before, TF had the information already - he was a legal member and had access to all the email/IP info already.

Yeah, I agree. What are the FFTB'ers going on about, with their "sensitive information"? Whatever he "gained" with his hacked access he already had when he had legal access vis a vis their email addresses.

Disclaimer: I'm both a lawyer and a floor-wax.

[Robert_S]

Drama. That's the name of the blogger game. Look at the number of comments PZ gets on posts about science and look at the numbers for posts about someone who did something wrong or stupid.

That's what they're going on about. It's probably slightly less fake than pro wrestling. But it is every bit as much about posturing.

[Jaygray]

Development and end game - allegedly:

http://thunderf00tdotorg.wordpress.com/ ... less-crap/

[DaveDodo007]

Development and end game - allegedly:

http://thunderf00tdotorg.wordpress.com/ ... less-crap/

I don't care about the legal issues as I support Wikileaks and such like. If these motherfuckers are trying to get people sacked in real life then fuck them, fuck them up there stupid arses.

[pErvinalia]

yep

[A Hermit]

Thorough answers to all the misrepresentations in this thread can be found by carefully, calmly and with an open mind reading the links found here:

http://freethoughtblogs.com/entequilaes ... l-crusade/

In short; no one at FtB has been trying to get anyone fired, TF is NOT a 'whistleblower", he violated privacy, trust and his word, and the potential for very serious harm to some of the FtB bloggers (including some who had nothing at all to do with the drama that got TF's knickers in a twist to begin with) are very real.

Get the facts before shooting your mouths off.