You guys and your guns...

[Seth]

[
I never said they were exactly analogous. I was simply addressing your comment about gun nuts not giving a toss about death and injury so long as other people pay the price.

I did say fair enough to that. Not giving a toss is a bit strong. But they don't care enough to actually change anything.

A lot of crocodile tears are shed, but nothing ever changes.

Cars are actually highly regulated, compared to guns. You have to pass a test, and it's illegal to drive drunk.
Not so with guns. It's illegal to be drunk in charge of a moped. Is it illegal to be drunk in charge of a gun? ( I don't actually know the answer to that ).

It's absolutely illegal to be in possession of any firearm while intoxicated. And if you are a habitual abuser of alcohol (alcoholic) or illegal drugs, it's illegal for you to even OWN one.

Guns are THE most controlled and regulated consumer product on the market, bar none. Just because you have no idea what those regulations and controls are doesn't mean they don't exist, it just proves how ignorant you are.

[Seth]

Considering that most defensive gun uses occur without a shot being fired, how else would anyone know about them? If I've been accosted by a crook, pull a revolver and tell him to fuck off, and he runs off into the night, I'm probably not going to waste the rest of my evening telling the cops about the bad guy who was here just a minute ago but I scared him off. No police report, yet a crime was prevented, and depending on the mental state and intentions of the criminal, harm to myself may have been avoided.

You are accosted by what I assume is a crook without a gun and you considering escalating the situation by bring out a lethal weapon as success. Never mind a civilian doing that if a policeman did that in the UK I would hope he would lose his job and be looking at jail time.

That ideology is so fucked up its beyond comprehension, but you have convinced me of one thing it isnt just guns that are the problem its the attitude of gun owners

Yeah, in your fucking insane world, you just bend over and take it up the ass because paranoia and fear rule your entire life. Fine for you, but not for me. If you don't want me to escalate the situation by drawing my gun and perhaps shooting you dead, then don't begin the situation by trying to criminally victimize me, because I won't bend over and take it up the ass like you will.

[Seth]

Cars are actually highly regulated, compared to guns. You have to pass a test, and it's illegal to drive drunk.
Not so with guns. It's illegal to be drunk in charge of a moped. Is it illegal to be drunk in charge of a gun? ( I don't actually know the answer to that ).

This actually depends on where you are in the US. Here in Massachusetts I had to take a firearms safety course and pass a test in order to even be eligible for a license. Being drunk with a gun is a definite no-no.

Is a definite no-no actually illegal?

Not in your own home on your own property.
It is if you leave the house and carry with you. Specifics depend on which state.
In Montana you can't carry into a bar even if you don't drink.

I don't know any state where it's legal to possess a firearm even in your own home while intoxicated. You might have one in the nightstand or gun safe, but you'd damned well better not have it in your physical possession while intoxicated, because that's a crime.

[Seth]

Not in your own home on your own property.
It is if you leave the house and carry with you. Specifics depend on which state.
In Montana you can't carry into a bar even if you don't drink.

I can't find any reference to an offence of intoxication while carrying a gun.

Try pulling your head out of your ass, your vision will be more clear.

In any case, a moped is more strictly regulated than a gun, because there is a legal limit of blood-alcohol for the moped.
It's not being drunk that's illegal. It's having more alcohol than the limit. That limit is nowhere near being drunk, for most people.
So it's still a fact that a moped is more tightly regulated than a gun.

No, it's not.

It's quite right that the moped should be regulated. But more tightly than guns?

It's not, you just don't know where or how to look. Here's the Colorado statute:

18-12-106. Prohibited use of weapons



(1) A person commits a class 2 misdemeanor if:

(a) He knowingly and unlawfully aims a firearm at another person; or

(b) Recklessly or with criminal negligence he discharges a firearm or shoots a bow and arrow; or

(c) He knowingly sets a loaded gun, trap, or device designed to cause an explosion upon being tripped or approached, and leaves it unattended by a competent person immediately present; or

(d) The person has in his or her possession a firearm while the person is under the influence of intoxicating liquor or of a controlled substance, as defined in section 12-22-303 (7), C.R.S. Possession of a permit issued under section 18-12-105.1, as it existed prior to its repeal, or possession of a permit or a temporary emergency permit issued pursuant to part 2 of this article is no defense to a violation of this subsection (1).

(e) He knowingly aims, swings, or throws a throwing star or nunchaku as defined in this paragraph (e) at another person, or he knowingly possesses a throwing star or nunchaku in a public place except for the purpose of presenting an authorized public demonstration or exhibition or pursuant to instruction in conjunction with an organized school or class. When transporting throwing stars or nunchaku for a public demonstration or exhibition or for a school or class, they shall be transported in a closed, nonaccessible container. For purposes of this paragraph (e), "nunchaku" means an instrument consisting of two sticks, clubs, bars, or rods to be used as handles, connected by a rope, cord, wire, or chain, which is in the design of a weapon used in connection with the practice of a system of self-defense, and "throwing star" means a disk having sharp radiating points or any disk-shaped bladed object which is hand-held and thrown and which is in the design of a weapon used in connection with the practice of a system of self-defense.

[Seth]

It remains a fact, regardless of the distress that the exactness of the fact causes, that a morbid interest in firearms, as displayed by some of our more swivel-eyed North American members, is an absolutely sure-fire indicator of psychopathy and that those afflicted should, at a minimum, be sterilised.

Try it and see how long you survive.

[Gallstones]

Cars are actually highly regulated, compared to guns. You have to pass a test, and it's illegal to drive drunk.
Not so with guns. It's illegal to be drunk in charge of a moped. Is it illegal to be drunk in charge of a gun? ( I don't actually know the answer to that ).

This actually depends on where you are in the US. Here in Massachusetts I had to take a firearms safety course and pass a test in order to even be eligible for a license. Being drunk with a gun is a definite no-no.

Is a definite no-no actually illegal?

Not in your own home on your own property.
It is if you leave the house and carry with you. Specifics depend on which state.
In Montana you can't carry into a bar even if you don't drink.

I don't know any state where it's legal to possess a firearm even in your own home while intoxicated. You might have one in the nightstand or gun safe, but you'd damned well better not have it in your physical possession while intoxicated, because that's a crime.

I keep mine in my home.
I do, of occasion, drink at home.
It may be illegal for both to be in play at the same time, I'd have to check that; but I don't realistically expect to be arrested for it unless I bring attention on myself--like brandish, shoot up the neighborhood, that kind of thing. The behavior that would get me arrested would get me arrested if I did it sober.

[Blind groper]

I am afraid, Seth, that what you have said on this thread makes me think your authorities made a big mistake giving you a gun license. When you say things like "try it and see how long you survive" you are indicating too little inhibition towards using a firearm with lethal effect.

A responsible user of firearms for the defense of himself and other humans should be a person who is exceedingly reluctant to use it. Being over-eager is a recipe for tragedy.

[pErvinalia]

Oh, you're friends are not the only stupid people in the world, I can think of at least one of their friends who is abysmally stupid.

lol. from the same sook who reported me earlier for personal attack.

Indeed. That's because what I just wrote is not a personal attack, it's a vague reference to stupidity in his friends.

Where's that insane smilie? Of course it was a personal attack. This is why you got banned from both rd.net and ratskep. You think you are covering up your personal attacks, but you're not.

I guess it depends on how you define "personal attack," fuckwit.

(Now THAT'S a personal attack placed there as an example.)

Yes, ok, that's all very funny. But the point is - Why did you have a sook about it when it was done to you? Why not just take it like a man?

[pErvinalia]

Considering that most defensive gun uses occur without a shot being fired, how else would anyone know about them? If I've been accosted by a crook, pull a revolver and tell him to fuck off, and he runs off into the night, I'm probably not going to waste the rest of my evening telling the cops about the bad guy who was here just a minute ago but I scared him off. No police report, yet a crime was prevented, and depending on the mental state and intentions of the criminal, harm to myself may have been avoided.

You are accosted by what I assume is a crook without a gun and you considering escalating the situation by bring out a lethal weapon as success. Never mind a civilian doing that if a policeman did that in the UK I would hope he would lose his job and be looking at jail time.

That ideology is so fucked up its beyond comprehension, but you have convinced me of one thing it isnt just guns that are the problem its the attitude of gun owners

Yeah, in your fucking insane world, you just bend over and take it up the ass because paranoia and fear rule your entire life.

I think you've got that the wrong way round. The people who feel they need guns to protect themselves are more likely to be paranoid and fearful than someone who feels like they are adequately safe without owning a gun.

[pErvinalia]

I am afraid, Seth, that what you have said on this thread makes me think your authorities made a big mistake giving you a gun license. When you say things like "try it and see how long you survive" you are indicating too little inhibition towards using a firearm with lethal effect.

A responsible user of firearms for the defense of himself and other humans should be a person who is exceedingly reluctant to use it. Being over-eager is a recipe for tragedy.

Yeah, that's my view of Seth as well. I think it's a fucking miracle he hasn't shot anyone in the 50 years or whatever that he has been a civilian gun owner. Surely it's only a matter of time till he does it, going by the increasingly violent and bitter opinions he's spouted over the years.

[JimC]

How about....

...gun bans are a no-no...

but,

...reasonable regulation of arms, like time, place and manner restrictions, safety regulations, permitting and licensing for carrying, and registration, etc., are fine...

and,

...there is no bright line as to where the level of "reasonableness" falls, but that's what the Supreme Court is for, in interpreting the reasonableness of State regulations to ensure that they do not violate the 14th Amendment substantive due process/liberty clause...?

That, of course, is a reasonable position. I may tend to think your country would be better off if it moved a little more in the regulation direction than you, but you've recognised that it's a position for argument, for debate, and ultimately for some sort of democratic resolution. As I've said many times, the form of the democratic resolution within your country is of course up to you folk, just like our gun regulations are up to us. And some sort of a "let's ban guns" is simplistic and unworkable, of course...

That doesn't stop me from offering an opinion, particularly an opinion on the attitudes of the extreme end of the gun lobby. If I see their proposition that "guns are the only thing standing between us and tyrants" as absurd and deluded, I will say so in no uncertain terms. This in itself is not some blanket form of US bashing, but part of a measured response to a particular set of attitudes.

Others in this thread have gone too far in blanket attacks on the US over the gun issue, which was never my intention, as a careful reading of my posts will confirm.

[MrJonno]

I am afraid, Seth, that what you have said on this thread makes me think your authorities made a big mistake giving you a gun license. When you say things like "try it and see how long you survive" you are indicating too little inhibition towards using a firearm with lethal effect.

A responsible user of firearms for the defense of himself and other humans should be a person who is exceedingly reluctant to use it. Being over-eager is a recipe for tragedy.

Yeah, that's my view of Seth as well. I think it's a fucking miracle he hasn't shot anyone in the 50 years or whatever that he has been a civilian gun owner. Surely it's only a matter of time till he does it, going by the increasingly violent and bitter opinions he's spouted over the years.

I'm prepared to bet there a few bodies from 'self defense' that Seth may have left around, I suspect if his posting here (assuming its not one big psychopath act) if linked to real life would result in guns being taken away even in the US

[mistermack]

I am afraid, Seth, that what you have said on this thread makes me think your authorities made a big mistake giving you a gun license. When you say things like "try it and see how long you survive" you are indicating too little inhibition towards using a firearm with lethal effect.

A responsible user of firearms for the defense of himself and other humans should be a person who is exceedingly reluctant to use it. Being over-eager is a recipe for tragedy.

I personally don't believe a single word that Seth writes.
I'm not saying it's all lies. Just that it could well be.

Without corroberation from a responsible adult, I jut treat it all as childish fantasy. Because that's how it comes across.

[Wumbologist]

I personally don't believe a single word that Seth writes.
I'm not saying it's all lies. Just that it could well be.

Without corroberation from a responsible adult, I jut treat it all as childish fantasy. Because that's how it comes across.

What? No. Seth is totally serious business, all the time. 24/7, 365. Well actually, 364. He takes a break for Arbor Day.

[Woodbutcher]

Back in 1968 I used to go hunting after school in the fall. I carried my 12 gauge in a bag to school, with ammo, and stored it in my locker all day. At the end of the day I and two of my friends, who had similarly stored their shotguns in school, would hitchhike 10 miles to hunt, and then hitchhike back. Never had a problem getting rides. Don't try this today.

On my 21st birthday in 1971, I spent the day hunting grizzlies along the Bow River, near Banff, with nothing but a Bowie knife.

Luckily for the grizzlies, we didn't catch any.

Fuck, I miss those drugs....