The Atheist Frontier

[rasetsu]

1. Atheism opens one up to the search for knowledge, once "Goddidit!" answers have been abandoned.

Historically, theists and believers have been just as interested in knowledge, and indeed some of history's most famous scientists were believers.[/color]

The fact that Newton was a believer was not important to his science. There's no middle ground of science and religion, they don't meet anywhere. So the fact that I'm Irish doesn't affect how much good science I can do. (Which would be damn little.)

This is an argument that refutes what you say about religion and science, but unfortunately I can't remember the specifics of it. There are a number of books that have been written about it, and the ones I have perused have made a reasonable case in some respects. A philosopher mate of mine gave me the run down on one of these arguments once but it was something to do with the difference between polytheism and monotheism, and gave an explanation of why the Greeks were so inquisitive. Sorry, I know this is a pretty empty shit post, but perhaps someone who knows some of the details of these arguments can expand on what i've said.

[rachelbean]

As a former believer myself I just think most of this article is simply taking a personal experience and world-view and assigning it as the de-facto atheist "way", which is just silly. If theists weren't capable of seeking knowledge fully then I wouldn't be an atheist now. That is wonderful if becoming an atheist opens up your world in a way that makes you want to live life to the fullest and take responsibility, for me it did the former for sure, but the latter I never had a problem with. Painting all theists and likewise all atheists with the same brush and same intentions and restrictions is pretty silly. Some people upon becoming an atheist might just decide that it gives them the freedom not to give a shit about anything ever and to shit all over everyone they come in contact with. A believer might get the same message out of their world-view. How people choose to conduct themselves has a lot less to do with religion or lack of it than I think most people think. Religion often gives people an excuse for their "bad" behaviour but you're fooling yourself if you don't think atheism could do the same for others.

The biggest thing becoming an atheist did for me was remove guilt, and that took more than becoming an atheist, it took a shift in my entire understanding. It's possible people could end up being there as theists too, it just wasn't possible for me with my particular background.

As for morality, while many atheists are also humanists there is nothing about being an atheist that makes you "moral" (it feels silly even using that as a concrete, rather than abstract idea, especially in relation to atheism).

I guess all I mean to say is that atheism was indeed freeing for me, allowed me to move away from a guilt-centered existence and move on with pursuing happiness in my life in a way that I previously considered selfish, that doesn't mean that is what it does for everyone. It might make some people into unrepentant assholes, and that's just fine too

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Well, I presumed he was mentioning Newton as a scientist who was also religious. However, Newton is probably not a good example to use because of certain specifics having to do with Newton himself.


"NNE means 'Mother' in Igbo Language. A language spoken in the Eastern part of Nigeria."


Are you going to clarify your point, Zilla, or not?

Newton was a fanatical Christian. When he kept religion out of his work he produced wonders. When he tried to Goddidit, he squandered years of work.

[Hermit]

Since the foundation of our community is built on real life relationships...

...real life relationships are the foundations. Therefore the aforementioned foundations are not. And "virgin voyage" means what? Are you tripping, Maiforpeace?

Also, the article linked to is barely less self indulgent waffle than the average new-age style wank.

[rasetsu]

Consider, for instance, the human papillomavirus (HPV). HPV is now the most common sexually transmitted disease in the United States. The virus infects over half the American population and causes nearly five thousand women to die each year from cervical cancer; the Centers for Disease Control (CDC) estimates that more than two hundred thousand die worldwide. We now have a vaccine for HPV that appears to be both safe and effective. The vaccine produced 100 percent immunity in the six thousand women who received it as part of a clinical trial. And yet, Christian conservatives in our government have resisted a vaccination program on the grounds that HPV is a valuable impediment to premarital sex. These pious men and women want to preserve cervical cancer as an incentive toward abstinence, even if it sacrifices the lives of thousands of women each year.

There is nothing wrong with encouraging teens to abstain from having sex. But we know, beyond any doubt, that teaching abstinence alone is not a good way to curb teen pregnancy or the spread of sexually transmitted disease. In fact, kids who are taught abstinence alone are less likely to use contraceptives when they do have sex, as many of them inevitably will. One study found that teen "virginity pledges" postpone intercourse for eighteen months on average—while, in the meantime, these virgin teens were more likely than their peers to engage in oral and anal sex. American teenagers engage in about as much sex as teenagers in the rest of the developed world, but American girls are four to five times more likely to become pregnant, to have a baby, or to get an abortion. Young Americans are also far more likely to be infected by HIV and other sexually transmitted diseases. The rate of gonorrhea among American teens is seventy times higher than it is among their peers in the Netherlands and France. The fact that 30 percent of our sex-education programs teach abstinence only (at a cost of more than $200 million a year) surely has something to do with this.

The problem is that Christians like yourself are not principally concerned about teen pregnancy and the spread of disease. That is, you are not worried about the suffering caused by sex; you are worried about sex. As if this fact needed further corroboration, Reginald Finger, an Evangelical member of the CDC's Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices, recently announced that he would consider opposing an HIV vaccine—thereby condemning millions of men and women to die unnecessarily from AIDS each year—because such a vaccine would encourage premarital sex by making it less risky. This is one of many points on which your religious beliefs become genuinely lethal.

— Sam Harris, Letter To A Christian Nation

[hadespussercats]

Consider, for instance, the human papillomavirus (HPV). HPV is now the most common sexually transmitted disease in the United States. The virus infects over half the American population and causes nearly five thousand women to die each year from cervical cancer; the Centers for Disease Control (CDC) estimates that more than two hundred thousand die worldwide. We now have a vaccine for HPV that appears to be both safe and effective. The vaccine produced 100 percent immunity in the six thousand women who received it as part of a clinical trial. And yet, Christian conservatives in our government have resisted a vaccination program on the grounds that HPV is a valuable impediment to premarital sex. These pious men and women want to preserve cervical cancer as an incentive toward abstinence, even if it sacrifices the lives of thousands of women each year.

There is nothing wrong with encouraging teens to abstain from having sex. But we know, beyond any doubt, that teaching abstinence alone is not a good way to curb teen pregnancy or the spread of sexually transmitted disease. In fact, kids who are taught abstinence alone are less likely to use contraceptives when they do have sex, as many of them inevitably will. One study found that teen "virginity pledges" postpone intercourse for eighteen months on average—while, in the meantime, these virgin teens were more likely than their peers to engage in oral and anal sex. American teenagers engage in about as much sex as teenagers in the rest of the developed world, but American girls are four to five times more likely to become pregnant, to have a baby, or to get an abortion. Young Americans are also far more likely to be infected by HIV and other sexually transmitted diseases. The rate of gonorrhea among American teens is seventy times higher than it is among their peers in the Netherlands and France. The fact that 30 percent of our sex-education programs teach abstinence only (at a cost of more than $200 million a year) surely has something to do with this.

The problem is that Christians like yourself are not principally concerned about teen pregnancy and the spread of disease. That is, you are not worried about the suffering caused by sex; you are worried about sex. As if this fact needed further corroboration, Reginald Finger, an Evangelical member of the CDC's Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices, recently announced that he would consider opposing an HIV vaccine—thereby condemning millions of men and women to die unnecessarily from AIDS each year—because such a vaccine would encourage premarital sex by making it less risky. This is one of many points on which your religious beliefs become genuinely lethal.

— Sam Harris, Letter To A Christian Nation

I can't believe I still haven't read that yet. To the library!!!

[Pappa]

I don't object to religion in and of itself until it starts to make specific assertions about physical reality.

I don't object to it until it affects the politics of the country I live in or affects the lives of people anywhere in a negative way.

[mistermack]

I don't object to religion in and of itself until it starts to make specific assertions about physical reality.

I don't object to it until it affects the politics of the country I live in or affects the lives of people anywhere in a negative way.

I don't object to it, if it wasn't for the fact that it's rammed down the throats of innocent children as fact, rather than fantasy.
That remorseless indoctrination is the REAL crime of the religions.

[Drewish]

…the freedom to think.

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