Those who have come from Pz's blog, aka THAT thread

[Kristie]

I haven't been following this thread, and it's too long to read through now.

Someone summarise it for me

[Thinking Aloud]

I haven't been following this thread, and it's too long to read through now.

Someone summarise it for me

The OP is about it. The rest is mostly going round in circles, and some stuff about shopping most recently.

[Bella Fortuna]

Summary: "Not worth reading"

[Kristie]

Summary: "Not worth reading"

Except the stuff about shopping!

[Bella Fortuna]

Summary: "Not worth reading"

Except the stuff about shopping!

NOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

[Rum]

I find shopping deeply offensive and I insist you all retract any reference to it before I do some sort of thing!

[Kristie]

I find shopping deeply offensive and I insist you all retract any reference to it before I do some sort of thing!

[Coito ergo sum]

Naked shopping?

[Kristie]

Naked shopping?

[Woodbutcher]

Well, I see Brave Sir PZ ran away. And took his toys with him. Unfortunately that's a symptom we've seen in him and his "movement" - an increasing isolation and refusal to discuss anything outside of the places that are controlled by banning and editing. I was really amazed he even came here - he rarely comments anywhere that he isn't his own or an ally's (like OB).

Over at FftB, the usual suspects are crowing about people saying things about harassment, yet are unable to see that it applies to them as well (for an example, see Take Your Hate Elsewhere. I admit that I like jokes, and mockery, and am quite free with poking people with sticks, but it depends on the place and circumstances too. I have had to bite my tongue in school when my normal response is sarcasm - definitely not good when dealing with kids. When talking one on one, I try to moderate that as well, unless the conversation is going nowhere or I am attacked. In the Slyme Pit, where we go to talk and blow off steam, I am not going to moderate (well, not much). Here, I plan to since this is a more restrained place (maybe more family friendly?) - not that people hold back, just that there is more effort to understand. I think that's a better way to describe what I've seen.

I did want to bring up something I wrote in a pm about the "survivor" label. I remember long ago (I'm 45) that the term came about because people were tired of being "victims" all their life. They weren't a rape victim, they were a rape survivor. Meaning they had been raped but went on and grew past that. They didn't want to be, and weren't, defined by the horrible things that happened to them. It spread to other things that were physically or emotionally horrible - genocide, cancer, etc. It was a positive thing. Yet now it looks like some people don't want that - they use the term "survivor" as a bludgeon - they define themselves as perpetual victims and leave out the "move on" part. Moving on does not mean forgetting about it, or not working to stop it, but it does mean getting better. It means not using your victim status to shut people up or appeal for special treatment. It means you don't let what happened to you define who and what you are - a person who was raped, not a rape victim. Ok, that last line, maybe doesn't say what I mean clearly, but I hope people understand where I'm coming from. Does this make sense, or anyone see flaws? I'd like to know if I'm off base on this since it's just my opinion.

"Get out of my head!!!" This is precisely what I think. You do not become a survivor until you move on. A club for rape victims, alcoholics or drug users is OK, but a lifetime membership in it is a fool thing to do. Your "club" would be, for you, the only safe place to be, therefore it would limit your interaction with real life, and you would be unable to function. That's why I left AA, it contained victims and those who were unable to move on. Granted, some were better off in there, they would have been unable to survive without constant encouragement and supervision, but I felt that I had to join the real world to grow and heal. Scary, but true.

[Coito ergo sum]

Naked shopping?

...meet you in the dressing room....

[laklak]

Naked shopping?

...meet you in the dressing room Jello Pit....

[Wumbologist]

Not nearly to the same degree. And, the way men shop is clearly different, and that difference is reflected in the way things are sold. And, in the stereotype of women needing 4 hours to shop. Or, those cartoons of a guy's trip to the mall being "need shirt - go to gap - buy shirt - go home" and women's trip to the mall is "need shirt -- go to mall -- wander around to every store browsing and 4 hours later buy 15 different things, but no shirt."

Something is going on there. It may well be just cultural. I don't know. But, there is a huge difference. As I mentioned, why do you think the malls are geared 80%, give or take, to women's purchases?

My mother and my sister can go shopping all day long having absolutely no intention of buying anything and no specific item in mind. They'll spend six hours at the mall going from store to store looking at everything and for nothing.

I don't set foot in a store until I know exactly what I want, where it is, how much it costs and how long it should take me to obtain it, and then my mission is to do so as quickly as possible and get the fuck out of there.

They shop.

I buy.

For some people it depends on what store! Hubby can browse Best Buy and Frye's for hours!

In recent months I'll admit that I've found myself spending too much time clothes shopping and enjoying it more than some might find reasonable.

But that's all good! Fuck it! Men be shoppin', if I damn well feel like it.

[Kristie]

Not nearly to the same degree. And, the way men shop is clearly different, and that difference is reflected in the way things are sold. And, in the stereotype of women needing 4 hours to shop. Or, those cartoons of a guy's trip to the mall being "need shirt - go to gap - buy shirt - go home" and women's trip to the mall is "need shirt -- go to mall -- wander around to every store browsing and 4 hours later buy 15 different things, but no shirt."

Something is going on there. It may well be just cultural. I don't know. But, there is a huge difference. As I mentioned, why do you think the malls are geared 80%, give or take, to women's purchases?

My mother and my sister can go shopping all day long having absolutely no intention of buying anything and no specific item in mind. They'll spend six hours at the mall going from store to store looking at everything and for nothing.

I don't set foot in a store until I know exactly what I want, where it is, how much it costs and how long it should take me to obtain it, and then my mission is to do so as quickly as possible and get the fuck out of there.

They shop.

I buy.

For some people it depends on what store! Hubby can browse Best Buy and Frye's for hours!

In recent months I'll admit that I've found myself spending too much time clothes shopping and enjoying it more than some might find reasonable.

But that's all good! Fuck it! Men be shoppin', if I damn well feel like it.

Damn it! You should've told me! We could've hit the mall in St Louis!!

[Bella Fortuna]

Well, I see Brave Sir PZ ran away. And took his toys with him. Unfortunately that's a symptom we've seen in him and his "movement" - an increasing isolation and refusal to discuss anything outside of the places that are controlled by banning and editing. I was really amazed he even came here - he rarely comments anywhere that he isn't his own or an ally's (like OB).

Over at FftB, the usual suspects are crowing about people saying things about harassment, yet are unable to see that it applies to them as well (for an example, see Take Your Hate Elsewhere. I admit that I like jokes, and mockery, and am quite free with poking people with sticks, but it depends on the place and circumstances too. I have had to bite my tongue in school when my normal response is sarcasm - definitely not good when dealing with kids. When talking one on one, I try to moderate that as well, unless the conversation is going nowhere or I am attacked. In the Slyme Pit, where we go to talk and blow off steam, I am not going to moderate (well, not much). Here, I plan to since this is a more restrained place (maybe more family friendly?) - not that people hold back, just that there is more effort to understand. I think that's a better way to describe what I've seen.

I did want to bring up something I wrote in a pm about the "survivor" label. I remember long ago (I'm 45) that the term came about because people were tired of being "victims" all their life. They weren't a rape victim, they were a rape survivor. Meaning they had been raped but went on and grew past that. They didn't want to be, and weren't, defined by the horrible things that happened to them. It spread to other things that were physically or emotionally horrible - genocide, cancer, etc. It was a positive thing. Yet now it looks like some people don't want that - they use the term "survivor" as a bludgeon - they define themselves as perpetual victims and leave out the "move on" part. Moving on does not mean forgetting about it, or not working to stop it, but it does mean getting better. It means not using your victim status to shut people up or appeal for special treatment. It means you don't let what happened to you define who and what you are - a person who was raped, not a rape victim. Ok, that last line, maybe doesn't say what I mean clearly, but I hope people understand where I'm coming from. Does this make sense, or anyone see flaws? I'd like to know if I'm off base on this since it's just my opinion.

"Get out of my head!!!" This is precisely what I think. You do not become a survivor until you move on. A club for rape victims, alcoholics or drug users is OK, but a lifetime membership in it is a fool thing to do. Your "club" would be, for you, the only safe place to be, therefore it would limit your interaction with real life, and you would be unable to function. That's why I left AA, it contained victims and those who were unable to move on. Granted, some were better off in there, they would have been unable to survive without constant encouragement and supervision, but I felt that I had to join the real world to grow and heal. Scary, but true.

Precisely how I feel. When people advise to "move on" it's not meant as a diminishment or a slam... it's about not letting some horrible thing define who you are or using that as the only lens through which you see the world. That's a self-imprisonment I'd wish on no one.