Screw history. Let you be the judge. Japan's imperial spirit

[FBM]

Is it still alive, or what?

Recently I did a smidgen of research into a territorial dispute between Korea and Japan over the Liancourt Rocks/Dokdo/Takeshima for an essay contest sponsored by a Korean newspaper. Of course, I wanted to win the prize money, so in the essay I concluded that the rocks rightfully belong to Korea.

But it's really not so clear-cut. Both sides claim primary source materials (old maps and legal documents) support their respective claims.

Anyway, Japan is also trying to get some of the Kuril Islands back from Russia. And they're in it with China over the Senkaku/Diaoyu Islands. In all 3 cases, Japan is wrangling with interpretations of the Potsdam Declaration and Peace Treaty of San Francisco in order to legitimize their various claims.

Now, none of these disputes is particularly new, but it looks like Japan has been throwing more fuel on each of these fires in the past few years.

To me, this suggests that, at best, Japan feels no genuine remorse for what it did during its imperialist period, and at worst, that maybe this spirit is still alive and kicking, all the way to the top echelons of the gummit. I say this, but I actually like Japan. I have no agenda against them.

So anyway, if you're a historian or history buff and are interested in the region or WWII, how about giving a glance at the official statements from Japan's and Korea's respective Ministry of Foreign Affairs and rendering a verdict?

http://www.mofa.go.jp/region/asia-paci/ ... ition.html
http://www.mofat.go.kr/ENG/policy/focus ... m_20_10_10

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Japan has never apologized for most of the really shitty things they did in WWII. The philosophy is "That was then, this is now, let's do business." It's epic denialism, of course, mixed with a social ego the size of a planet.

[FBM]

Sounds like a pretty fair assessment. As far as I know, they still haven't formally apologized for enslaving many thousands of women to provide their soldiers with "comfort".

So, if you were a judge, would you formally grant ownership of those rocks to Korea?

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Sounds like a pretty fair assessment. As far as I know, they still haven't formally apologized for enslaving many thousands of women to provide their soldiers with "comfort".

So, if you were a judge, would you formally grant ownership of those rocks to Korea?

I don't think like judges, territorial disputes are a historian's bread and butter, but I don't make judgment calls on such matters, I try to find out the motivations for the actions. In short, I have no opinion on the matter because I don't know enough.

[Tyrannical]

To the Japanese, WWII was probably just pay back for the Mongol invasions which Korea and China cooperated in. Old cultures hold long memories, and grudges.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

To the Japanese, WWII was probably just pay back for the Mongol invasions which Korea and China cooperated in. Old cultures hold long memories, and grudges.

As they both failed I doubt that's a motivator. Like any other country, history is only relevant when it supports the current cause.

[JimC]

"Co-prosperity sphere, anyone?"

[FBM]

Koreans and Chinese only participated at swordpoint, and like Zilla said, they failed, anyway. As far as I know, Korea never tried to invade anybody. They've been on the defense against China, Japan or the Mongols pretty much nonstop up until WWII.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

"Co-prosperity sphere, anyone?"

The Greater East Asia Co-prosperity Sphere was a very good idea. If you were Japanese. I wish I still had the analysis that was done by a Japanese professor and slipped out of Japan to cause an uproar in the rest of the world. Basically, he projected a future where Japan had the only industry in East Asia, a program to outlaw "irrelevant education" in the other countries, mandatory trade with Japan only, etc. It made the British Empire seem like a hippie commune. Even the Nazis were a little shocked. (This was before the Japanese became "honorary Aryans", of course.

Koreans and Chinese only participated at swordpoint, and like Zilla said, they failed, anyway. As far as I know, Korea never tried to invade anybody. They've been on the defense against China, Japan or the Mongols pretty much nonstop up until WWII.

Korea was defending against a Japanese invasion when the turtle ships ruled the waves, IIRC.

[FBM]

A few more details. The rocks/islands were included in the first 5 drafts of the SF Peace Treaty. When the 6th or so draft was being drafted, somebody suddenly decided to omit them. The Korean ambassador requested that they be reinstated. Dean Rusk, US something or other, sent a letter saying that as far as the US knew, Korea had never claimed them and referenced the Potsdam Declaration, which also didn't mention them.

But the US didn't have the authority to unilaterally make decisions regarding the meaning of the Potsdam Declaration. Britain and China should have also been consulted.

Next thing you know, the US was using the rocks for bombing practice and for dumping un-used bombs when returning from missions. Sounds like somebody cut a deal behind the scenes to me.

Korea was defending against a Japanese invasion when the turtle ships ruled the waves, IIRC.

You recall correctly.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

http://digicoll.library.wisc.edu/FRUS/

[FBM]

Thanks, Zilla, but I came up empty there. Maybe I don't know how to search there.

Edit: Scratch that. I found something.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Thanks, Zilla, but I came up empty there. Maybe I don't know how to search there.

Edit: Scratch that. I found something.

[klr]

Japan has never really apologized for admitted most of the really shitty things they did in WWII. The philosophy is "That was then, this is now, let's do business." It's epic denialism, of course, mixed with a social ego the size of a planet.

'cos describing genocidal expansionism in terms like "regrettable" just don't cut the mustard.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Japan has never really apologized for admitted most of the really shitty things they did in WWII. The philosophy is "That was then, this is now, let's do business." It's epic denialism, of course, mixed with a social ego the size of a planet.

'cos describing genocidal expansionism in terms like "regrettable" just don't cut the mustard.

I can see that you have not fully understood Japan's true intentions in this matter. /Kurusu.