'Belief systems' versus theism

[Rum]

There has been a fascinating - to me anyway - series of short talks on Radio 4 called Honest Doubt. Here's a link http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01j8n4d

The writer and presenter is a 'doubting Christian' with a serious desire to get to the truth of what matters for us humans. The last of the short talks was yesterday and basically he concluded that ultimately it is unknowable whether there is a force totally outside human apprehension which is some sort of god (he does neatly skirt around the fact there there doesn't seem to be any evidence for one mind you!). Love and kindness are amazing things to have emerged in the universe, he concludes, whether they arise from a deity or human evolution.

But what came over to me was his honesty. I found myself comparing his open and honest questioning, however focused on the hope that there is a god, compared to, as an example of the opposite, the Salvation Army guy in Australia who recently said all gay people deserved to die because his 'belief system' (supported by scripture) says so. (Link: http://www.truthwinsout.org/blog/2012/06/26448/).

Much of my network on the internet and elsewhere is a self affirming community of skeptics and atheists who tend to leap on people such as the Salvation Army guy and I think we tend to forget that there are honest well intentioned and decent people who think seriously about their faith and wrestle with what it might mean to them on a daily basis.

[Ayaan]

It is easy to forget that, especially here in the US, where the most out-spoken believers are generally the most hateful, least compassionate, and most close-minded of people. There really are believers who take their faith seriously and try to use it to become more compassionate, more loving people. Too bad they are often the least out-spoken.

[Rum]

Bumping this as I think it might stimulate some responses.

[Seth]

It is easy to forget that, especially here in the US, where the most out-spoken believers are generally the most hateful, least compassionate, and most close-minded of people. There really are believers who take their faith seriously and try to use it to become more compassionate, more loving people. Too bad they are often the least out-spoken.

Sounds to me like you're talking about Atheists, who are indeed "out-spoken believers" in their own self-righteousness and priggish intolerance.

[JimC]

It's the tendency of many theists to take their own belief systems and apply them to the whole of humanity in a smug and self-righteous fashion that sticks in my craw...

The guy in the OP wasn't in that unpleasant group...

[hackenslash]

It is easy to forget that, especially here in the US, where the most out-spoken believers are generally the most hateful, least compassionate, and most close-minded of people. There really are believers who take their faith seriously and try to use it to become more compassionate, more loving people. Too bad they are often the least out-spoken.

The real issue here is one of force. Conceptually, at least in the minds of most, compassion and love are diametrically opposed to force. It is little realised that compassion and love are forceful in their own right. Acceptance is seen as the handmaiden of love, not least because love leads to acceptance, even of the most glaring faults. How many tales are there of the abused who refuse to escape their abuses through love?

As always and in all things, though, those who represent the best are drowned out by those who represent the worst, thus providing both shield and justification for the worst.

[Tero]

It is easy to forget that, especially here in the US, where the most out-spoken believers are generally the most hateful, least compassionate, and most close-minded of people. There really are believers who take their faith seriously and try to use it to become more compassionate, more loving people. Too bad they are often the least out-spoken.

Sounds to me like you're talking about Atheists, who are indeed "out-spoken believers" in their own self-righteousness and priggish intolerance.

See if I help you get a ride to the gas station when you are at the roadside with car trouble.

[laklak]

It is easy to forget that, especially here in the US, where the most out-spoken believers are generally the most hateful, least compassionate, and most close-minded of people. There really are believers who take their faith seriously and try to use it to become more compassionate, more loving people. Too bad they are often the least out-spoken.

Sounds to me like you're talking about Atheists, who are indeed "out-spoken believers" in their own self-righteousness and priggish intolerance.

See if I help you get a ride to the gas station when you are at the roadside with car trouble.

Atheists don't help people on the roadside. They EAT people on the roadside.

[Hermit]

It is easy to forget that, especially here in the US, where the most out-spoken believers are generally the most hateful, least compassionate, and most close-minded of people. There really are believers who take their faith seriously and try to use it to become more compassionate, more loving people. Too bad they are often the least out-spoken.

Sounds to me like you're talking about Atheists, who are indeed "out-spoken believers" in their own self-righteousness and priggish intolerance.

Have a look in the mirror, Seth. Your hatred and intolerance oozes from every other post of yours.

[Jason]

It is easy to forget that, especially here in the US, where the most out-spoken believers are generally the most hateful, least compassionate, and most close-minded of people. There really are believers who take their faith seriously and try to use it to become more compassionate, more loving people. Too bad they are often the least out-spoken.

Sounds to me like you're talking about Atheists, who are indeed "out-spoken believers" in their own self-righteousness and priggish intolerance.

Have a look in the mirror, Seth. Your hatred and intolerance oozes from every other post of yours.

If only there was a shining example of what we should strive not to be. Perhaps he/she could provide a helpful blog?

[FBM]

It's the tendency of many theists to take their own belief systems and apply them to the whole of humanity in a smug and self-righteous fashion that sticks in my craw...

The guy in the OP wasn't in that unpleasant group...

I don't think it's limited to religious belief systems. Personal and social values, nationality, politics, skin color, language, etc.

[hackenslash]

Atheists don't help people on the roadside. They EAT people on the roadside.

Only if they're babies...

[FBM]

Well, the occasional adolescent or two...

[Audley Strange]

Well when I see "Belief System" I see BS. Make of that what you will.

[Rum]

Well when I see "Belief System" I see BS. Make of that what you will.

I agree. A 'system' seems to me to require that along with the central tenets of an idea - in this case Christian altruism, 'love thy neighbour' etc. you also have to agree, for example, that gay people are an abomination. Its like the 'whip' thing in political parties. Join up and you have to sign up for the lot, not just the bits that seem right to you.