Lying for Reason and Science

[lordpasternack]

You're completely missing the point, Huxley. If this is all going through some individual's personal PayPal account, they don't even have to declare all of the money as having been donations to RDFRS. They can declare it as other personal income - and most likely, no-one from within RDFRS is capable of knowing, far less reassuring donors that this is not happening. Donors deserve to know of this situation - and most definitely deserve to demand a more reliable system of INTERNAL auditing.

If you were under any impression, for instance, that either of your kids was having unprotected or risky sex - you wouldn't keep shtum about it until something actually arose. You'd sit them down and at least educate them on appropriate precautions. And just as your kids having unprotected sex doesn't mean that they are pregnant or have contracted HIV - so does the fact that RDFRS reportedly being a bit incompetent in their financial affairs, doesn't mean that they're up to anything dodgy. But there is a needless risk being run, which is easily avoided, and which concerned parties deserve to know about.

And, if you step back from being contrary for a minute - are YOU quite happy to donate to RDFRS, if that set-up really is in place?


And anyway, I shall further demonstrate in the thread later, that Ms Cornwell has a history of amending reality to suit her tastes, which is broader and deeper than that which I've already mentioned.

[Clinton Huxley]

Not missing the point at all. If this lady is mixing her personal money with the charities money, im pretty sure that is illegal and is a specific thing about which a complaint could be made

[lordpasternack]

Not missing the point at all. If this lady is mixing her personal money with the charities money, im pretty sure that is illegal and is a specific thing about which a complaint could be made

And the fact that it would be very difficult, if not impossible, in the reported circumstances - for RDFRS to reassure its donors that this isn't happening, or for anyone else outside of the organisation (including regulatory bodies) to investigate - is a problem.

Or do you mean that the scenario of donations money going through her personal PayPal account is somehow illegal per se?

[Clinton Huxley]

Not missing the point at all. If this lady is mixing her personal money with the charities money, im pretty sure that is illegal and is a specific thing about which a complaint could be made

And the fact that it would be very difficult, if not impossible, in the reported circumstances - for RDFRS to reassure its donors that this isn't happening, or for anyone else outside of the organisation (including regulatory bodies) to investigate - is a problem.

Or do you mean that the scenario of donations money going through her personal PayPal account is somehow illegal per se?

I'm guessing here and could be completely wrong but I'm pretty sure that there are regulations about mixing money in this fashion. Now, "personal PayPal" account could mean two things - a PayPal account that is used for personal purposes, into which the charity money also goes, which would be dodgy, or a PayPal account set up personally by this woman into which ONLY charity money goes. That might be ok.

Even here on Ratz, as I understand it, moneys go into a Rationalia Association account, rather than, say, into Pappa's personal account, and we aren't a registered charity.

[lordpasternack]

From what I've been informed - it goes into her personal personal PayPal account. And again, I'm not convinced there's any reliable internal auditing going on at all.

One only wonders how many times Richard will have to be bitten, before he gets even just a little bit shy. And how many times he'll show utter flagrant disregard of the tacit trust that donors place in his charity, until it comes to slamming the stable door after the horse has bolted.

[Svartalf]

Funny... Timonen finally got sacked because he mixed funds that should have gone to the foundations with his own money... and that that character does the same, apparently with the blessings of RD? (or at least his absentminded assent, which is bad since after the first scalding he should be shy of that kind of shenanigans)

[Clinton Huxley]

I guess it all depends, then, on what she uses that PayPal account for. If ONLY charity donations are going in there, it is probably not a problem.

[Svartalf]

well, doesn't change the fact that it's in HER name and that nothing prevents her from going shopping with whatever monies end up there.

[lordpasternack]

Timonen didn't get sacked. He resigned due to a conflict he had with Elisabeth Cornwell around April 2010, and handed over the store's books to RDFRS following his resignation. It was after this that the alleged embezzlement was discovered (by Elisabeth Cornwell, incidentally).

And they already KNEW he was mixing up his own money with RDFRS donations. He was operating it as part of his BUSINESS - Upper Branch - for heaven's sake. RDFRS's gripe is that he was allegedly mixing the money up in a way that they hadn't agreed to!

[Clinton Huxley]

well, doesn't change the fact that it's in HER name and that nothing prevents her from going shopping with whatever monies end up there.

Just looking and UK legislation is that all charities are obliged to provide their accounts, if requested. US may be the same, if that is where RDFRS is registered. LP could ask for the accounts. Making accusations is easy, you have to be able to back them up. That is where I would start, if I cared.

[Svartalf]

Timonen didn't get sacked. He resigned due to a conflict he had with Elisabeth Cornwell around April 2010, and handed over the store's books to RDFRS following his resignation. It was after this that the alleged embezzlement was discovered (by Elisabeth Cornwell, incidentally).

And they already KNEW he was mixing up his own money with RDFRS donations. He was operating it as part of his BUSINESS - Upper Branch - for heaven's sake. RDFRS's gripe is that he was allegedly mixing the money up in a way that they hadn't agreed to!

As the expert, what is your take on this... do you think her discovering the "embezzlement" might have been a framing of of timo to make herself look good? or did she just rat on a fellow moocher to direct the attention away from her own doings?

[Svartalf]

well, doesn't change the fact that it's in HER name and that nothing prevents her from going shopping with whatever monies end up there.

Just looking and UK legislation is that all charities are obliged to provide their accounts, if requested. US may be the same, if that is where RDFRS is registered. LP could ask for the accounts. Making accusations is easy, you have to be able to back them up. That is where I would start, if I cared.

Charities are also supposed to have dedicated accounts, not to have monies sent them go through accounts that are officially the personal ones of officials... little prevent somebody with access to foundation accounts from embezzling, but having the money transit through a personal account is an invitation for it to go anywhere BUT the foundation.

[lordpasternack]

Huxley - Elisabeth Cornwell's personal PayPal account will not be audited as the official charity account - even though it is reportedly the first stop for all donations made via the web.

It would be triflingly easy for her to play "one for you, and one for me" through that PayPal account, while keeping the OFFICIAL charity account looking fresh and breezy.

[Clinton Huxley]

Huxley - Elisabeth Cornwell's personal PayPal account will not be audited as the official charity account - even though it is reportedly the first stop for all donations made via the web.

It would be triflingly easy for her to play "one for you, and one for me" through that PayPal account, while keeping the OFFICIAL charity account looking fresh and breezy.

It WOULD be easy but do you have any evidence to say that is happening?

[lordpasternack]

Timonen didn't get sacked. He resigned due to a conflict he had with Elisabeth Cornwell around April 2010, and handed over the store's books to RDFRS following his resignation. It was after this that the alleged embezzlement was discovered (by Elisabeth Cornwell, incidentally).

And they already KNEW he was mixing up his own money with RDFRS donations. He was operating it as part of his BUSINESS - Upper Branch - for heaven's sake. RDFRS's gripe is that he was allegedly mixing the money up in a way that they hadn't agreed to!

As the expert, what is your take on this... do you think her discovering the "embezzlement" might have been a framing of of timo to make herself look good? or did she just rat on a fellow moocher to direct the attention away from her own doings?

I daren't be so frank.

What I will say is that I wouldn't put it past her to have embellished the case with similar falsehoods, exaggerations and wilfull distortions as I've already demonstrated to be characteristic of her.