Unarmed teen shooting: the debate rages on...

[Tyrannical]

Let me know who wins this thread.

Well, SOME PEOPLE are already ahead on points. Because SOME PEOPLE said that Zimmerman had to stand trial, and OTHERS (losers) wouldn't hear of it.

It'll never make it to the jury. Judge will dismiss, you can bank on it.

[kiki5711]

I've said he may be prejudiced and paranoid OR he may be reporting accurately. I don't know. I only know what he said to the 911 officer. The key point though is that that is all YOU know too. Right?

You've never said that, until after I said it. And if that is the case, as you say that he might have been prejudiced and paranoid, then his version of (supposedly) reporting accurately may not be accurate at all, or at least swung towards his favor.

As I said. Regarding the other paragraph. You took words that were out of sinc and I can't answer based on that kind of line of questioning.

Never say never, kiki....http://rationalia.com/forum/viewtopic.p ... 0#p1186322

Yes, it may not be accurate at all, and it may be accurate.

I'm not taking anything out of sync. All I'm asking is what makes you think Zimmerman wasn't acting in self defense?

I wish you wouldn't bring up stuff from hundred posts ago just to prove I said something wrong. Let's keep up to date.

Now before we get to what I think about zimmerman acting in self defense, let me ask you a question that has something to do "before" it led to the shooting.


dispatcher asks Zimmerman, “Are you following him?” To which Zimmerman replies, “Yeah.”

The dispatcher tells Zimmerman, “We don’t need you to do that.” Zimmerman acknowledges hearing him, saying, “OK.”


what did the dispatcher mean (in your opinion) when he said we don't need you to do that?

[FBM]

Speaking of bringing up something that was discussed a hundred posts ago...

[kiki5711]

You make lots of spelling mistakes, but mostly it's that words don't mean what you think they mean, and subtleties and distinctions are often lost on you. If English wasn't your first language then this would be perfectly understandable, and preferable to the alternative.

can you give me an example? I just want to see what exactly you mean.

Any time you take issue with a point someone is making, there seems to be some confusion because your understanding of certain words or ideas is quite different than everyone else's. Everyone attacks your argument, but then it turns out in the end that you're not on the same page as far as language usage. Your understanding, or misunderstanding, of the word "profiling" for instance.

The reason I brought the issue up was because something similar happened on another forum I used to go to. Everyone gave this one guy a real hard time. But then we found out he was Filipino, and that English was not his primary language. So his problem was that he couldn't express himself well in English. He thought he could, but he couldn't, so this was a source of constant misunderstanding.

Here is an example where a reporter uses the word "profile" in the same manner I did. So, are they wrong too?

Some believe Zimmerman made racial slurs, while others say they don’t hear it. Some believe Zimmerman profiled Trayvon because he immediately said the teen looked suspicious and acknowledged he was black.

[tattuchu]

They didn't use it the same way. You just misunderstand. And the quote you provide only illustrates your misunderstanding.

[kiki5711]

Clearly he anticipated a violent reaction from a potential burglar, which is why he was armed.

what would this be then?

[Tyrannical]

I've said he may be prejudiced and paranoid OR he may be reporting accurately. I don't know. I only know what he said to the 911 officer. The key point though is that that is all YOU know too. Right?

You've never said that, until after I said it. And if that is the case, as you say that he might have been prejudiced and paranoid, then his version of (supposedly) reporting accurately may not be accurate at all, or at least swung towards his favor.

As I said. Regarding the other paragraph. You took words that were out of sinc and I can't answer based on that kind of line of questioning.

Never say never, kiki....http://rationalia.com/forum/viewtopic.p ... 0#p1186322

Yes, it may not be accurate at all, and it may be accurate.

I'm not taking anything out of sync. All I'm asking is what makes you think Zimmerman wasn't acting in self defense?

I wish you wouldn't bring up stuff from hundred posts ago just to prove I said something wrong. Let's keep up to date.

Now before we get to what I think about zimmerman acting in self defense, let me ask you a question that has something to do "before" it led to the shooting.


dispatcher asks Zimmerman, “Are you following him?” To which Zimmerman replies, “Yeah.”

The dispatcher tells Zimmerman, “We don’t need you to do that.” Zimmerman acknowledges hearing him, saying, “OK.”


what did the dispatcher mean (in your opinion) when he said we don't need you to do that?

That the dispatcher didn't want Zimmerman to endanger himself by following a now known feral animal. The dispatcher turned out to be correct, as Zimmerman was attacked. Though the real mistake Zimmerman made was not paying attention to his surroundings and not having quicker access to his firearm. Zimmerman should have been prepared to shoot Trayvon before he was successfully assaulted.

[kiki5711]

a now known feral animal.

do you need a new white robe and hood or can you still think straight with your old one?

[Seth]

Clearly he anticipated a violent reaction from a potential burglar, which is why he was armed.

what would this be then?

Prudence and good tactical planning.

[mistermack]

Let me know who wins this thread.

Well, SOME PEOPLE are already ahead on points. Because SOME PEOPLE said that Zimmerman had to stand trial, and OTHERS (losers) wouldn't hear of it.

It'll never make it to the jury. Judge will dismiss, you can bank on it.

No thanks. Although it wouldn't surprise me, you don't inspire that much confidence.

[kiki5711]

Clearly he anticipated a violent reaction from a potential burglar, which is why he was armed.

what would this be then?

Prudence and good tactical planning.

we were discussing "profiling v. judgment". Your description could be added to a thousand other things it could be called and thanks for your input, but stick to the subject.

[Tyrannical]

a now known feral animal.

do you need a new white robe and hood or can you still think straight with your old one?

The KKK is dead, and the pretenders are neo-Nazis that I don't approve of. Though there has been a resurgence of traditional Klans, unfortunately none are near where I live.

[Coito ergo sum]

I've said he may be prejudiced and paranoid OR he may be reporting accurately. I don't know. I only know what he said to the 911 officer. The key point though is that that is all YOU know too. Right?

You've never said that, until after I said it. And if that is the case, as you say that he might have been prejudiced and paranoid, then his version of (supposedly) reporting accurately may not be accurate at all, or at least swung towards his favor.

As I said. Regarding the other paragraph. You took words that were out of sinc and I can't answer based on that kind of line of questioning.

Never say never, kiki....http://rationalia.com/forum/viewtopic.p ... 0#p1186322

Yes, it may not be accurate at all, and it may be accurate.

I'm not taking anything out of sync. All I'm asking is what makes you think Zimmerman wasn't acting in self defense?

I wish you wouldn't bring up stuff from hundred posts ago just to prove I said something wrong. Let's keep up to date.

If you wish I wouldn't bring it up, why did YOU bring it up? You're wrong again. I've never claimed to read Zimmerman's mind and know if he's making things up, or is paranoid and psycho. That kind of clairvoyance is only claimed by you and those others calling him a "nut" and "psycho" and "paranoid" and attributing to him various other motivations.

Now before we get to what I think about zimmerman acting in self defense,

Why wait? I always answer your questions. Why do you delay answering the basic question. And, the question wasn't "what you think about Zimmerman acting in self-defense." The question was "on what basis do you claim Zimmerman was not acting in self defense?"

let me ask you a question that has something to do "before" it led to the shooting.


dispatcher asks Zimmerman, “Are you following him?” To which Zimmerman replies, “Yeah.”

The dispatcher tells Zimmerman, “We don’t need you to do that.” Zimmerman acknowledges hearing him, saying, “OK.”


what did the dispatcher mean (in your opinion) when he said we don't need you to do that?

The dispatcher meant "we don't need you to [follow him].

And, what do you think Zimmerman meant when he said, "O.k?"

And, what do you think is indicated by the fact that once Zimmerman says "O.k." the sounds of him running and breathing heavy subside?

[kiki5711]

Neighborhood watch volunteers are trained to be the eyes and ears for police. According to the leader of the national Neighborhood Watch organization, volunteers are not to be armed and they are not to pursue anyone. They are asked to call police if they see or hear something suspicious.

If he was told "we don't need you to do that" then that is what he should have done. Not gone any further, for any reason, not to get more accurate location or or pursue martin for any reason, and if he was a neighborhood watch volunteer chosen by "the neighborhood", then while on duty, he should not have been armed.

There's no proof that martin was acting suspicious to the degree that he looked like a dangerous criminal, except in the eyes of zimmerman.

Due to zimmerman's perception of martin, he stepped out of his boundery of duty which led to a confrontation and martin's death.

Martin also had the right to STAND YOUR GROUND" law to protect himself. He didn't know who zimm was as he never identified himself, (not in any reports that I know of), and what zimms intent was by following him and looking at him.

Shooting martin while fighting with him was only in self defense because he couldn't handle the situation any other way, but the cowardly way out and kill. He brought the confrontation on himself and therefore I don't consider it self defense.

[Tero]

How does the song go?

I was looking for trouble,
But trouble came looking for me.