Unarmed teen shooting: the debate rages on...

[FBM]

IMO, CES is being more objective than the average poster in this thread. Most have been spinning tirelessly to make the available data fit their fave political worldview, be it liberal, white guilt-pumping self-wank or equally narrow-minded white supremist, neo-Nazi bullshit. AFAICT, CES is still defending the position that he doesn't/we don't actually know what happened that night between those two people, which is true of everyone who wasn't there. I'm willing to bet that if the neo-Nazi, white supremist anglers were the most frequent and rabid posters on this topic, CES would be pointing out to them that they also don't know what happened that night between those two people. Correct me if I'm wrong, CES.

[Clinton Huxley]

It's just stuff. Stuff is never equal to the life of any person.

What a pity. All those nameless medieval peasants who created the beautiful cathedrals of Europe toiled in vain because the only lasting memories of them are just stuff.

Suppose a person was strapped to some explosives and they will go off in 10 seconds. You have a button. If you press it, the explosives will be disarmed but another set of explosives will destroy, say, Durham Cathedral ( with no casualties), what would you do? And if you choose to save Durham Cathedral, what do you say to the person strapped to the chair? Or, for that matter, to the police?

Not addressed at you, Warren, specifically. It's the kind of thing Peter Singer talks about.

[Warren Dew]

IMO, CES is being more objective than the average poster in this thread.

True. He's still being pretty long winded about it, though.

I'm willing to bet that if the neo-Nazi, white supremist anglers were the most frequent and rabid posters on this topic, CES would be pointing out to them that they also don't know what happened that night between those two people.

Maybe we can get Coito to join in on the Stormfront thread on this topic and watch the fireworks!

[Warren Dew]

It's just stuff. Stuff is never equal to the life of any person.

What a pity. All those nameless medieval peasants who created the beautiful cathedrals of Europe toiled in vain because the only lasting memories of them are just stuff.

Suppose a person was strapped to some explosives and they will go off in 10 seconds. You have a button. If you press it, the explosives will be disarmed but another set of explosives will destroy, say, Durham Cathedral ( with no casualties), what would you do? And if you choose to save Durham Cathedral, what do you say to the person strapped to the chair? Or, for that matter, to the police?

Not addressed at you, Warren, specifically. It's the kind of thing Peter Singer talks about.

I have an easy personal answer anyway, as I think we have greater responsibility for our actions than for our failures to act. I would refrain from pushing the button no matter which way it was wired.

Good question for those who don't make that distinction, though. You can always escalate the architectural side of the question, too - make it paving over the Acropolis for a car park, or something.

[maiforpeace]

CES would be pointing out to them that they also don't know what happened that night between those two people.

That's not what he's doing...he's arguing point by point, ad nauseum. As if he actually thinks it's going to get Kiki to change her mind, or others that share her position to actually read all of his posts.

But hey, he's welcome to talk to the air if it makes him feel better.

[Clinton Huxley]

@ Warren - A failure to act is, in this case, a decision not to act.

[FBM]

IMO, CES is being more objective than the average poster in this thread.

True. He's still being pretty long winded about it, though.

If given a choice between verbosity and unbridled, revenge/hate-driven, politically biased spin, I'd take the verbosity any day. If you don't know, just show some balls and say you don't know. (generic 'you' there)

I'm willing to bet that if the neo-Nazi, white supremist anglers were the most frequent and rabid posters on this topic, CES would be pointing out to them that they also don't know what happened that night between those two people.

Maybe we can get Coito to join in on the Stormfront thread on this topic and watch the fireworks!

[Warren Dew]

@ Warren - A failure to act is, in this case, a decision not to act.

It's a decision, but not an action.

[FBM]

CES would be pointing out to them that they also don't know what happened that night between those two people.

That's not what he's doing...he's arguing point by point, ad nauseum. As if he actually thinks it's going to get Kiki to change her mind, or others that share her position to actually read all of his posts.

But hey, he's welcome to talk to the air if it makes him feel better.

And vice versa. I won't be spun off the position that I don't actually know what happend between those two people that night. In that respect, Kiki is also talking to air.

At least CES has some understanding of logical fallacies and how to avoid them. The devil is in the details, and AFAICT, CES is addressing those devils that others seem to be glossing over...

[Tero]

Continuing on the stuff question.

If blowing up a thing saves a persons life and puts 100 people out of home and job, we still do it. Then provide for the 100.

There is nothing in my house I would save if saving results in a major injury to anyone. Im insured.

[Woodbutcher]

Continuing on the stuff question.

If blowing up a thing saves a persons life and puts 100 people out of home and job, we still do it. Then provide for the 100.

There is nothing in my house I would save if saving results in a major injury to anyone. Im insured.

Wife? Kids? Pets? Your favourite yoghurt?

[kiki5711]

If Zimerman had had any inkling of the forum thread he would inspire, he probably wouldn't have fired.

The only thing that keeps me interested at this point is my sick fascination wondering how long the participants, namely CES and Kiki will last. Kiki, just give in, haven't you learned anything around here?

You're right mai. FBM is still hashing around something about some natzis and racism and how Coito is the only one that knows it all. I was just trying to show the inconsistencies of coito/seth/and fbm/posts. One day they say one thing, next day, they say another thing, all the while implying that all I can see is the racist card, which is sooo far from it, it ain't even funny.

that's why you see a few of my post singing "here we go round the mulberry bush, mulberry bush, so early in the morning"

[kiki5711]

ok, just one more mai....he he

FBM: And vice versa. I won't be spun off the position that I don't actually know what happend between those two people that night. In that respect, Kiki is also talking to air.

does this mean you're saying that I am saying that I know for a fact what happened that night? Just want to be clear before I answer.

[Warren Dew]

If blowing up a thing saves a persons life and puts 100 people out of home and job, we still do it.

Very questionable.

The GM bailout cost somewhere in the range of a million dollars a job. Do you really think we couldn't have saved a single life with $100,000,000?

[FBM]

ok, just one more mai....he he

FBM: And vice versa. I won't be spun off the position that I don't actually know what happend between those two people that night. In that respect, Kiki is also talking to air.

does this mean you're saying that I am saying that I know for a fact what happened that night? Just want to be clear before I answer.

Judging from your posts, you sure seem to imply as much.

kiki, have you ever heard of logical fallacies? If so, would you define for me your understanding of what they are and why some people consider them to be important?

And, no, I have never claimed that CES nor I nor anyone else "knows it all." To the contrary, my point exactly is that not a single one of us knows for a fact exaclty what happened between those two people on that night. Haven't you read my posts at all?