How far should our lack of respect for religion go?

[Thumpalumpacus]

Studying the Bible always seems to imply swallowing someone else's guff without question.

...unless it becomes the road to deism and/or atheism. There are ex-christians who rejected their beliefs because they sat down and studied the bible.

Yes. One of the key points on my road to apostasy was reading the New International Version. Shorn of its Elizabethan prose, the mundane, petty nature of the Christian conception of God is made clear.

[Tero]

I have a migraine.

Fuck religion.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

I have a migraine.

Fuck religion.

Good point, well made.

[Hermit]

Studying the Bible always seems to imply swallowing someone else's guff without question.

...unless it becomes the road to deism and/or atheism. There are ex-christians who rejected their beliefs because they sat down and studied the bible.

Yes. One of the key points on my road to apostasy was reading the New International Version. Shorn of its Elizabethan prose, the mundane, petty nature of the Christian conception of God is made clear.

Without studying the bible, you are also unlikely to become aware of the huge amount of cherrypicking that is necessary to give the "holy, unchanging god-given laws" at least a semblance of being appropriate and right in modern societies.

This letter has been circulating on the internet for quite some years and makes fun of it. The author would not have been able to write it, had he/she not studied the bible. It's a reply to a radio show host/agony aunt who opined that homosexuality is an abomination because as per Leviticus 18:22 god says so.

Dear Dr. Laura:

Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I have learned a great deal from your show, and try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination ... End of debate.

I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some other elements of God's Laws and how to follow them.

1. Leviticus 25:44 states that I may possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?

2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of Menstrual uncleanliness - Lev.15: 19-24. The problem is how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

4. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord - Lev.1:9. The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

5. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself, or should I ask the police to do it?

6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination, Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this? Are there 'degrees' of abomination?

7. Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle-room here?

8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die?

9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev.19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? Lev.24:10-16. Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair, like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)

I know you have studied these things extensively and thus enjoy considerable expertise in such matters, so I'm confident you can help.

Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.

Your adoring fan.

[macdoc]

Respect is earned....so is disrespect........that should tell the tale

[Thumpalumpacus]

Very true, Seraph. It was a shock to me to learn many of the things commanded by this god I had worshipped.

[nellikin]

Classic, Seraph - it makes me laugh again and again.

I have to admit to having no respect for religion, and if someone brings it up, I'll challenge. Otherwise, I mainly couldn't be bothered, though there are some exceptions - I get really shitty about the obvious advantages given to religions in our supposedly secular society and will vent my anger to anyone who can put up with my rant.

WRT to FB post, I'd probably just let the whole thing slide and ignore it. I really don't have the time or energy for FB discussion.

Re: studying the bible. I have tried to do this so often, and have read most of the NT and parts of the OT. The problems is that all that begatting is just way too boring, so I invariably give up. Am I allowed to skip a bit, brother?

I did get into a discussion with some evangelicals recently, but that was at an atheist meeting where they had come to participate. It was hilarious. One was a really depressed guy, a self-proffessed misanthrope, who told me that god exists to do divine works of glory. When I asked him why these works weren't apparent, and why instead we see pain and suffering, he simply had no answer. He also didn't know why his all-powerful god, who certainly could convert anybody (being all powerful) and make everybody happy (being a good being), didn't just press the happy conversion button and get it over and done with. Jeebus, and he was there to try to convert us...!

[Ronja]

Studying the Bible always seems to imply swallowing someone else's guff without question.

...unless it becomes the road to deism and/or atheism. There are ex-christians who rejected their beliefs because they sat down and studied the bible.

.

[Thinking Aloud]

There's a picture doing the rounds on FB just now (the talk of bible study reminded me)... Ah yes - thanks to The Dawktor:

[Svartalf]

Studying the Bible always seems to imply swallowing someone else's guff without question.

That's the basic problem... if you want to study it, you have to treat some of the basic assumptions like they were true, or at least reasonable starting predicates... If you set forth the fact that the thing is illogical, mostly unsupported when it comes to verifiable facts, and lacks self consistence of any kind at the start, there's no study possible, it's just bad fiction/propaganda.

[Svartalf]

Studying the Bible always seems to imply swallowing someone else's guff without question.

...unless it becomes the road to deism and/or atheism. There are ex-christians who rejected their beliefs because they sat down and studied the bible.

by the definitions given above, I'd say that they didn't so much study the bible as actually read it while paying attention... and came to the conclushion it was badly wrapped crap... not as smelly and badly wrapped as mormonism or scientology, mind you, but still.

[Hermit]

Don't know. My definition of "study" is to actually read while paying attention.

[Svartalf]

and mine involves more in depth work... like checking other sources, or studying the various passages dealing with the same matter as a set for comparison and complementary data rather than simply reading a book cover to cover... Given that I normally pay attention when I do that, I call it reading, not study.

[Hermit]

You're a genius!

[Rum]

Some of you might remember a post about whether or not to unfriend an old work from of several decades who also happens to be a Christan fundamentalist. Well his recent posts include a report from his wife who is on a mission to Macedonia and who is amazed at how easy God has made it for her to give 800 quid to local poor people and this, which is the final straw. My response to it on his FB page was simply 'lol'. He is now 'de-friended'. Sad as I have known him for over 30 years. Still he's twat so that the end of it.