How far should our lack of respect for religion go?

Holy Crap!
Post Reply
User avatar
Rum
Absent Minded Processor
Posts: 37285
Joined: Wed Mar 11, 2009 9:25 pm
Location: South of the border..though not down Mexico way..
Contact:

How far should our lack of respect for religion go?

Post by Rum » Wed Apr 25, 2012 11:08 pm

My recent minor 'do' with an old work colleague - somewhere between acquaintance and friend got me thinking. His beliefs are really quite ridiculous and although I have been challenging them in a polite sort of way I am not taking it much further. I suppose this is out of respect for the human relationship and the fact that actually I have known him for close to 30years.

But really his fundie views are actually such a distorted take on a rational world view that I wonder if I should be more outspoken. But then again to what end if, as I am sure, he won't change his views. Also, yet again, who am I to say I am right and he is wrong?

Which, to widen the point, is the thought here. How far should one challenge the stupidity!? Or should there be an element of respect? They have little for us in my experience by the way.

Any thoughts?

User avatar
Gawdzilla Sama
Stabsobermaschinist
Posts: 151265
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 12:24 am
About me: My posts are related to the thread in the same way Gliese 651b is related to your mother's underwear drawer.
Location: Sitting next to Ayaan in Domus Draconis, and communicating via PMs.
Contact:

Re: How far should our lack of respect for religion go?

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Wed Apr 25, 2012 11:11 pm

Depends on how many fights you want to get into.
Image
Ein Ubootsoldat wrote:“Ich melde mich ab. Grüssen Sie bitte meine Kameraden.”

User avatar
FBM
Ratz' first Gritizen.
Posts: 45327
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2009 12:43 pm
About me: Skeptic. "Because it does not contend
It is therefore beyond reproach"
Contact:

Re: How far should our lack of respect for religion go?

Post by FBM » Wed Apr 25, 2012 11:44 pm

For me, people are more important than ideas. If you value the relationship and the person, don't sweat the petty stuff. OTOH, for people who come knocking on my door or are otherwise trying to shove their fantasies down my throat, it doesn't bother me to just laugh, close the door, or walk away. It's not really worth getting angry or too excited about for me. IOW, respect the person, but not the religion.
"A philosopher is a blind man in a dark room looking for a black cat that isn't there. A theologian is the man who finds it." ~ H. L. Mencken

"We ain't a sharp species. We kill each other over arguments about what happens when you die, then fail to see the fucking irony in that."

"It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions in favor of vegetarianism while the wolf remains of a different opinion."

User avatar
Audley Strange
"I blame the victim"
Posts: 7485
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2011 5:00 pm
Contact:

Re: How far should our lack of respect for religion go?

Post by Audley Strange » Wed Apr 25, 2012 11:56 pm

I have NO respect for religion. I don't care if people believe in God unless they start going on about it at which point they are fair game.
"What started as a legitimate effort by the townspeople of Salem to identify, capture and kill those who did Satan's bidding quickly deteriorated into a witch hunt" Army Man

User avatar
Robert_S
Cookie Monster
Posts: 13416
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 5:47 am
About me: Too young to die of boredom, too old to grow up.
Location: Illinois
Contact:

Re: How far should our lack of respect for religion go?

Post by Robert_S » Thu Apr 26, 2012 12:23 am

Context dependent.

I won't sign off on the bullshit, but I'll leave it be when the other person isn't being argumentative.
What I've found with a few discussions I've had lately is this self-satisfaction that people express with their proffessed open mindedness. In realty it ammounts to wilful ignorance and intellectual cowardice as they are choosing to not form any sort of opinion on a particular topic. Basically "I don't know and I'm not going to look at any evidence because I'm quite happy on this fence."
-Mr P

The Net is best considered analogous to communication with disincarnate intelligences. As any neophyte would tell you. Do not invoke that which you have no facility to banish.
Audley Strange

User avatar
HomerJay
Posts: 2512
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 9:06 pm
Location: England
Contact:

Re: How far should our lack of respect for religion go?

Post by HomerJay » Thu Apr 26, 2012 12:24 am

I think if you need to respect their religion to get inside their pants then that's reasonable.

But I wouldn't go further than that.

User avatar
FBM
Ratz' first Gritizen.
Posts: 45327
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2009 12:43 pm
About me: Skeptic. "Because it does not contend
It is therefore beyond reproach"
Contact:

Re: How far should our lack of respect for religion go?

Post by FBM » Thu Apr 26, 2012 12:26 am

HomerJay wrote:I think if you need to respect their religion to get inside their pants then that's reasonable.

But I wouldn't go further than that.
There is that, yes...and maybe if you stand to profit off the person somehow...
"A philosopher is a blind man in a dark room looking for a black cat that isn't there. A theologian is the man who finds it." ~ H. L. Mencken

"We ain't a sharp species. We kill each other over arguments about what happens when you die, then fail to see the fucking irony in that."

"It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions in favor of vegetarianism while the wolf remains of a different opinion."

User avatar
maiforpeace
Account Suspended at Member's Request
Posts: 15726
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 1:41 am
Location: under the redwood trees

Re: How far should our lack of respect for religion go?

Post by maiforpeace » Thu Apr 26, 2012 12:29 am

FBM wrote:For me, people are more important than ideas. If you value the relationship and the person, don't sweat the petty stuff. OTOH, for people who come knocking on my door or are otherwise trying to shove their fantasies down my throat, it doesn't bother me to just laugh, close the door, or walk away. It's not really worth getting angry or too excited about for me. IOW, respect the person, but not the religion.
:this: and
Audley Strange wrote:I have NO respect for religion. I don't care if people believe in God unless they start going on about it at which point they are fair game.
:this:
Atheists have always argued that this world is all that we have, and that our duty is to one another to make the very most and best of it. ~Christopher Hitchens~
Image
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3534/379 ... 3be9_o.jpg[/imgc]

User avatar
Hermit
Posts: 25806
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 12:44 am
About me: Cantankerous grump
Location: Ignore lithpt
Contact:

Re: How far should our lack of respect for religion go?

Post by Hermit » Thu Apr 26, 2012 12:33 am

My brother is a fundie to the extent that he is also a young-earth-creationist. I like him for 52 years now. This has helped me to make a clear distinction between people and their views, and to take each of the latter on their own merits. My brother's fundamentalism is only one among many others.
I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein’s brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops. - Stephen J. Gould

User avatar
Tero
Just saying
Posts: 51282
Joined: Sun Jul 04, 2010 9:50 pm
About me: 15-32-25
Location: USA
Contact:

Re: How far should our lack of respect for religion go?

Post by Tero » Thu Apr 26, 2012 1:08 am

You have to make fun of them, with another person there, without them knowing it.

Seth
GrandMaster Zen Troll
Posts: 22077
Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2011 1:02 am
Contact:

Re: How far should our lack of respect for religion go?

Post by Seth » Thu Apr 26, 2012 2:32 am

Rum wrote:My recent minor 'do' with an old work colleague - somewhere between acquaintance and friend got me thinking. His beliefs are really quite ridiculous and although I have been challenging them in a polite sort of way I am not taking it much further. I suppose this is out of respect for the human relationship and the fact that actually I have known him for close to 30years.

But really his fundie views are actually such a distorted take on a rational world view that I wonder if I should be more outspoken.
Do you care about continuing the friendship? If so, I suggest you mind your own business.
But then again to what end if, as I am sure, he won't change his views. Also, yet again, who am I to say I am right and he is wrong?
Do his beliefs either pick your pocket or break your leg? If not, tolerating his beliefs is merely reciprocal good manners, after all, he's been politely ignoring the fact that you're an Atheist all this time.
Which, to widen the point, is the thought here. How far should one challenge the stupidity!? Or should there be an element of respect?
It's called "common courtesy." Unless you have some compelling reason to interfere with other people's beliefs, sticking your oar in merely because you think their beliefs are stupid is the height of arrogance and rude behavior. If their religious beliefs cause them to act in ways that are not peaceable and respectful of your equal right to be an Atheist, then by all means confront them for their bad behavior. But to confront someone merely because they don't believe the same way you do is just as inherently evil and disrespectful as when a person of religion does it to you. Intolerance of religious diversity is no more acceptable than intolerance of sexual diversity.
They have little for us in my experience by the way.
Then leave them alone and mind your own business.
"Seth is Grandmaster Zen Troll who trains his victims to troll themselves every time they think of him" Robert_S

"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke

"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth

© 2013/2014/2015/2016 Seth, all rights reserved. No reuse, republication, duplication, or derivative work is authorized.

User avatar
rachelbean
"awesome."
Posts: 15757
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 12:08 am
About me: I'm a nerd.
Location: Wales, aka not England
Contact:

Re: How far should our lack of respect for religion go?

Post by rachelbean » Thu Apr 26, 2012 7:36 am

I'm not sure the title of the thread matches the question asked inside. I have less than no respect for religion but I have respect for many people who happen to be religious and I don't feel it's my job to instruct them or criticize in any way. I have a few people (including my parents) on Facebook that I have in a filtered list so they don't get my atheist or evolution posts, not because I'm ashamed of those beliefs but because I know the info won't change their minds and I try and think how I feel about seeing religious posts.

That being said, if someone posts something bigoted I have no problem saying exactly what I think about it. I don't pick fights but I am up front about my beliefs or lack thereof and I try and be as civil and kind as possible, which hopefully gives some people a positive view of atheists :mrgreen:

User avatar
Rum
Absent Minded Processor
Posts: 37285
Joined: Wed Mar 11, 2009 9:25 pm
Location: South of the border..though not down Mexico way..
Contact:

Re: How far should our lack of respect for religion go?

Post by Rum » Thu Apr 26, 2012 7:58 am

Some good points. The general consensus seems to be live and let live, which would be my approach as a rule especially if their beliefs have no negative impact on one. It gets a bit tougher though, for me anyway, when people you know say things like 'god bless you' and 'I will pray for you' and other specifically religious things which kind of 'include' you in their circle of belief.

The person who got me thinking about this (the FB friend) did this quite frequently. I tended to hold back but my impulse was to say I had no wish for a blessing from his imaginary sky god. It used to irritate me like hell.

User avatar
Clinton Huxley
19th century monkeybitch.
Posts: 23739
Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2009 4:34 pm
Contact:

Re: How far should our lack of respect for religion go?

Post by Clinton Huxley » Thu Apr 26, 2012 8:01 am

If someone said "I'll pray for you" to me I'd just shrug. They might as well say, "I'll read pages 1-5 of Naughty Amelia Jane by Enid Blyton for you". I couldn't care less, not even enough to make a fuss about it. Pray for me? Knock yourself out, set to with a will!
"I grow old … I grow old …
I shall wear the bottoms of my trousers rolled"

AND MERRY XMAS TO ONE AND All!

Imagehttp://25kv.co.uk/date_counter.php?date ... 20counting!!![/img-sig]

User avatar
Animavore
Nasty Hombre
Posts: 39276
Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2009 11:26 am
Location: Ire Land.
Contact:

Re: How far should our lack of respect for religion go?

Post by Animavore » Thu Apr 26, 2012 8:08 am

If I didn't have tolerance for religious people I'd have no friends. It's that simple. I'm sure it must be great to live in an ivory tower with people all on the same wavelength but I don't live there. There's not one of my friends who don't believe in some bullshit. Not necessarily religion but some woo or other. They all know my position on things so we never fight over it. I find it amusing that I often hear them start a sentence, "I know you don't believe in this but..." and then proceed to tell me about some woo which I usually listen to without interruption or challenge, though if they ask what I think I'll tell them. I think the fact that people make this concession to me and not the other way around is indicative of something :ask:
Libertarianism: The belief that out of all the terrible things governments can do, helping people is the absolute worst.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests