Unarmed teen shooting: Is Florida law to blame?

[Coito ergo sum]

The Orlando Sentinel, citing anonymous sources, has reported that Martin grabbed Zimmerman's head and banged it several times against the sidewalk. A statement from Sanford police said the newspaper's story was "consistent" with evidence turned over to prosecutors.

Sonner said the gash on the back of Zimmerman's head probably was serious enough for stitches, but he waited too long for treatment so the wound was already healing. Miguel Meza, who identified himself as Zimmerman's cousin, said Zimmerman was in "the fight of his life."

His head was being bashed on the concrete and bleading and had a gash that probably needed stiches, but by the time first aid came it already healed?

The pictures I saw show him in the police station with a visible wound. That would have been after he got some first aid.

And, again, you make an allegation that isn't supported by what you quote. You say "by the time first aid came it already healed." That isn't what the above paragraph says at all. Paragraph 1 above says that a report was made that zimmerman's head was banged against the ground, and the Sanford police said the story was consistent with the evidence they had. Again, that doesn't in any way support your allegation.

The second paragraph says that "Sonner" said the gash on Zimmerman's head "probably" was serious enough for stitches, but he waited too long for treatment. How in the world does that, by any reading, mean that it was healing in the short time between the bashing on the ground and when first aid appeared on the scene? It doesn't say that at all. It says that Zimmerman didn't get stitches at the time and that he waited too long to get stitches. Wounds don't heal in an hour.

So, what is it that you think this shows?

[Coito ergo sum]

Zimmerman's attorney Craig Sonner tells ABC News it will be clear in court that Zimmerman acted in self defense, and that he suffered a broken nose and an injury to the back of his head the night Trayvon Martin was killed.

March 26: George Zimmerman originally told police in a written statement that Trayvon Martin knocked him down with a punch to the nose, repeatedly slammed his head on the ground and tried to take his gun, a police source tells ABC News.

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/abc-blogs/t ... -news.html

he got all banged up according to this, but didn't need blunt trauma care because it was already healing?

Nobody said that. You misread your own blurbs.

Nobody said that he was healing between the time his head was hit and the police/first responders showed up.

[Coito ergo sum]

IN addition, his father in the interview says that his son was going to the store, Target. Does everyone carry a gun just going to the store to pick up a few things. He did NOT say his son was on patrol that night, he was just merely going to the store.

So what? What does that mean to you?

No, not everyone carries a gun just to go to the store to pick up a few things. Most people don't carry guns at all.

Furthermore:

Furthermore? Other than post things that counter your own allegations, what is it that you think you've shown?

Trayvon Martin’s girlfriend told ABC News late Monday night her final phone conversation with him before he was shot dead by neighborhood watch volunteer George Zimmerman.

The girl, whose parents requested not to make her name public, was questioned by the Martin family’s attorney Benjamin Crump and described that her boyfriend was cornered by Zimmerman.

“He said this man was watching him, so he put his hoodie on,” she said. “He said he lost the man. I asked Trayvon to run, and he said he was going to walk fast. I told him to run but he said he was not going to run.”

“Trayvon said, ‘What, are you following me for.’ And the man said, ‘What are you doing here.’ Next thing I hear is somebody pushing, and somebody pushed Trayvon because the head set just fell. I called him again and he didn’t answer the phone.”

The girlfriend refused to cooperate with police, refused to be interviewed by police, and refused to give sworn statements to police. The content of the phone call was offered many weeks later, apparently, after the Martin family attorney contacted her, took a recorded statement, and sent it to federal authorities.

Persuasive?

Any thought on how a defense attorney would destroy that in court?
This can be proved or disapproved through getting her cell phone records, at least the time line of the conversation and who was talking to who. Contents of the conversation cannot legally be obtained.

[mistermack]

Just a couple of points for the record.
The pictures circulated of apparent injuries to Zimmerman's head are altered pictures.
They call them enhanced, but all they have done is turn up the contrast to a ridiculous level, and when you do that, eventually marks will even appear on a white billiard ball, where there were none.

The original video is perfectly clear, and shows that there were NO injuries showing on his head.

Secondly, Martin's girlfriend's statement.
If she didn't give it till three weeks later, and then to the family solicitor, WHY NOT?

The police had the phone, had the record of the call, and the timing. What could be more relevant to a HOMICIDE investigation? Like I said, something stinks about this police operation. It's just not normal.

[Warren Dew]

The pictures circulated of apparent injuries to Zimmerman's head are altered pictures....

The original video is perfectly clear, and shows that there were NO injuries showing on his head.

Sorry, but that's not accurate. The first released video was a grainy copy. The later released video was at the original higher resolution. Some news sources did do additional contrast enhancement, but injuries are clearly visible on the unaltered, higher resolution version. It would be more accurate to call the original grainy version "altered".

Secondly, Martin's girlfriend's statement.
If she didn't give it till three weeks later, and then to the family solicitor, WHY NOT?

The police had the phone, had the record of the call, and the timing. What could be more relevant to a HOMICIDE investigation? Like I said, something stinks about this police operation. It's just not normal.

Perhaps the statement was taken and is in the investigation records. If her statement now is different, then I'd be asking why, but I wouldn't assume it's the police, rather than the girlfriend, at fault.

[kiki5711]

Coito: The second paragraph says that "Sonner" said the gash on Zimmerman's head "probably" was serious enough for stitches, but he waited too long for treatment. How in the world does that, by any reading, mean that it was healing in the short time between the bashing on the ground and when first aid appeared on the scene? It doesn't say that at all. It says that Zimmerman didn't get stitches at the time and that he waited too long to get stitches. Wounds don't heal in an hour.

Exactly!!!!!!! You're contradicting yourself in one paragraph.

smashed head against concrete over and over, broken nose and all they had to do was just clean him up a bit?

[amused]

Breaking news.... Zimmerman to be charged with 2nd degree murder.

[kiki5711]

Second degree mur.der is the correct charge in this case. You do not have the right to confront an unarmed....innocent civilian with a weapon and no authority. The minute Zimmerman chose to confront Martin he became the aggressor. Compounding the problem with a weapon made him the assailant and Martin the victim.

Any response Martin had was purely self-defense. The "injuries" if any that Zimmerman suffered were irrelevant. That is akin to checking a mug.ger for scrapes and bruises. Who hit who first is also irrelevant. Zimmerman was the assailant and Martin was the victim. Martin was the one fight.ing for his life....not Zimmerman.

How many armed assailants cry out for help opposed to unarmed victims?

Zimmerman confronted and provoke the incident and he is the one that should be held accountable for the results. These weekend warriors with power complexs have to know they will be held accountable and charged to the full extent of the law when they make a mistake.....

[mistermack]

It's official now.

God thinks Zimmerman is guilty. Jesus got him arrested !!

“We simply wanted an arrest,” Trayvon’s mother Sabryna said. “And we got it. Thank you lord. Thank you Jesus.”

[mistermack]

The pictures circulated of apparent injuries to Zimmerman's head are altered pictures....

The original video is perfectly clear, and shows that there were NO injuries showing on his head.

Sorry, but that's not accurate. The first released video was a grainy copy. The later released video was at the original higher resolution. Some news sources did do additional contrast enhancement, but injuries are clearly visible on the unaltered, higher resolution version. It would be more accurate to call the original grainy version "altered".

Secondly, Martin's girlfriend's statement.
If she didn't give it till three weeks later, and then to the family solicitor, WHY NOT?

The police had the phone, had the record of the call, and the timing. What could be more relevant to a HOMICIDE investigation? Like I said, something stinks about this police operation. It's just not normal.

Perhaps the statement was taken and is in the investigation records. If her statement now is different, then I'd be asking why, but I wouldn't assume it's the police, rather than the girlfriend, at fault.

I'm not going to argue, although you don't give any links to support that about the video.
What I would say is that the video I saw, was good quality, and the back of his head was clearly unmarked. The only marking I've seen is in one still, and I looked at the point in the video that that come from, and it was just where the back of his head goes into shadow. The still is totally different, the shadow is gone, and these supposed marks are there. That's what I meant by "altered". What I've seen clearly was, but I don't know what you've seen.

As far as the girlfriend is concerned, it's a bit confused what the police have actually done.
I've seen no reference to the police interviewing her, or taking a statement.
That doesn't mean it didn't happen, but it's surprising.

[amused]

Florida Rep. Dennis Baxley, who sponsored the "stand your ground" law in 2005, said nothing in it allows people to "pursue and confront."

http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/11/justice/f ... index.html

[maiforpeace]

Breaking news.... Zimmerman to be charged with 2nd degree murder.

It had to be. Now it will be up to our court system. It's going to be THE trial of this new century for us Americans.

[amused]

Breaking news.... Zimmerman to be charged with 2nd degree murder.

It had to be. Now it will be up to our court system. It's going to be THE trial of this new century for us Americans.

I'm hoping it ends up toppling all the handgun laws that arm these vigilantes and gets us headed back toward a civil society.

[Warren Dew]

I'm not going to argue, although you don't give any links to support that about the video.

Here's a link that shows the frame from the unaltered video, along with the same frame after "enhancement". The mark is clearly visible on both, though it's more clear on the "enhanced" version.

What I would say is that the video I saw, was good quality, and the back of his head was clearly unmarked.

Your turn to provide a link.

[maiforpeace]

I'm not going to argue, although you don't give any links to support that about the video.

Here's a link that shows the frame from the unaltered video, along with the same frame after "enhancement". The mark is clearly visible on both, though it's more clear on the "enhanced" version.

What I would say is that the video I saw, was good quality, and the back of his head was clearly unmarked.

Your turn to provide a link.

Did you mean to post a link with this post Warren?