Unarmed teen shooting: Is Florida law to blame?

[kiki5711]

Is it justice to decide a case without analyzing the evidence? I'd hope no one ever did that to your son should he ever be in a similar situation, especially based on his skin color.

Yes, it can go both ways, hypothetically, but we're talking about this case not any other.

[kiki5711]

If this was someone in my family, there would be no tomorrow for me. On that day I would decide what kind of justice I would decide, at the cost of my life.

So what, the way it sounds. It's how I feel.

[FBM]

Is it justice to decide a case without analyzing the evidence? I'd hope no one ever did that to your son should he ever be in a similar situation, especially based on his skin color.

Yes, it can go both ways, hypothetically, but we're talking about this case not any other.

Yes, I agree, but if Zimmerman is convicted by the public based on emotions instead of evidence, what's to stop that from happening to your son or anyone else? If the investigators and prosecutors bend to public pressure instead of the weight of the evidence in this case...

And in this case, Zimmerman isn't one of the gap-toothed hillbillies who give you a hard time. From your objective review of the evidence available, what is the smoking gun, so to speak? Please keep in mind that I don't have a pet opinion about whether he's guilty or innocent. My only point is that we should suspend judgement and let evidence and reason prevail, instead of convicting the guy based on personal factors unrelated to this specific incident.

[kiki5711]

my gut tells me that Zimmerman provoked him. Whether by following him and maybe scarying him that he would be attacked, which is exactly what happened.

If I was followed by someone on a dark street with no body around, I'd feel the same thing. How would he know what intentions Zimmerman had other than to harm him?

Either way, once Zimmerman is in prison, I hope he gets what he deserves by other inmates.

[FBM]

I do appreciate that, and I hope I'm not being annoying, but suppose someone else had similar gut feelings about you or your loved one(s) in a similar situation based on their emotions or past experiences, and didn't bother to consult the evidence? Wouldn't you want them to look at the evidence instead?

[kiki5711]

Didn't you ever hear of "revenge"? There can be a million and one explanations why this was an accident, but who started it and the result of it makes no difference at this point.

By the way, with all the "stun guns" why are deadly weapons still needed for neighborhood watch? You can just "zapp" someone if they are "truly" attacking you for whatever reason. But this guy Zimmerman thought he was the "trial and the jury" at that moment, so who says he deserves any better.

[maiforpeace]

my gut tells me that Zimmerman provoked him. Whether by following him and maybe scarying him that he would be attacked, which is exactly what happened.

If I was followed by someone on a dark street with no body around, I'd feel the same thing. How would he know what intentions Zimmerman had other than to harm him?

Provocation is enough reason to attack someone? If that's the case, then you can easily say the hoodie the kid was wearing provoked Zimmerman.

Otherwise, let's all be thankful that guts aren't enough to decide guilt.

[kiki5711]

my gut tells me that Zimmerman provoked him. Whether by following him and maybe scarying him that he would be attacked, which is exactly what happened.

If I was followed by someone on a dark street with no body around, I'd feel the same thing. How would he know what intentions Zimmerman had other than to harm him?

Provocation is enough reason to attack someone? If that's the case, then you easily say the hoodie the kid was wearing provoked Zimmerman.

Otherwise, let's all be thankful that guts aren't enough to decide guilt.

Well then, why don't we just give him a medal for "neighborhood watchman" of the year.

[FBM]

OK, I think maybe I'm being annoying about insisting on objective evaluation of evidence. I'll drop it.

[kiki5711]

And it's not just "ONE" provocation. Zimmerman had history of reporting constant "bogus" reports. He was "LOOKING" for the day he could act on his constant suspicions.

[maiforpeace]

OK, I think maybe I'm being annoying about insisting on objective evaluation of evidence. I'll drop it.

You aren't. Maybe to Kiki, and no offense to her, but I think she's judging more with her heart than her head. Nobody knows yet, so let's let our wonderful system of justice decide.

EDIT

As for the prison comments...I wonder exactly what Trayvon's parents and family would like for justice (other than the arrest of course). Just saying, you might have a friend who gets jailed for marijuana (me), or worse yet for a crime they didn't commit...they are all subject to this prison justice you speak of - do you really wish that on people?

[kiki5711]

OK, I think maybe I'm being annoying about insisting on objective evaluation of evidence. I'll drop it.

You aren't. Maybe to Kiki, and no offense to her, but I think she's judging more with her heart than her head. Nobody knows yet, so let's let our wonderful system of justice decide.

So, it will be, going through years of court time and evidence, in either case Zimmerman will get some prison time, and that's where I hope he gets what he really deserves. It might not be first degree murder, but maybe second degree or some other. The situation will not end up with Zimmerman getting Scott free from his actions.

[FBM]

OK, I think maybe I'm being annoying about insisting on objective evaluation of evidence. I'll drop it.

You aren't. Maybe to Kiki, and no offense to her, but I think she's judging more with her heart than her head. Nobody knows yet, so let's let our wonderful system of justice decide.

Yup. On the whole, our system of justice is better than that in a lot of countries, to be fair about it. Maybe precisely because we at least try to decide things based on evidence, rather than tradition or this or that cultural/religious or whatever bias.

And it's not just "ONE" provocation. Zimmerman had history of reporting constant "bogus" reports. He was "LOOKING" for the day he could act on his constant suspicions.

I promise I'll bugger off after this statement. The piece of misinformation you mention has been identified as a typo and has since been corrected, as have several other things published in the various media. Some of the links in the previous posts have the current situation wrt those sorts of corrections. Anyhoo, I'll go play somewhere else for a while.

[maiforpeace]

OK, I think maybe I'm being annoying about insisting on objective evaluation of evidence. I'll drop it.

You aren't. Maybe to Kiki, and no offense to her, but I think she's judging more with her heart than her head. Nobody knows yet, so let's let our wonderful system of justice decide.

Yup. On the whole, our system of justice is better than that in a lot of countries, to be fair about it. Maybe precisely because we at least try to decide things based on evidence, rather than tradition or this or that cultural/religious or whatever bias.

Maybe better than some countries, but still worse than others as long as we have the death penalty. I'm more a fan of restorative rather punitive justice.

[Warren Dew]

Sanford police on Thursday also challenged a WFTV-Channel 9 report, in which Mary Cutcher said police largely ignored her even though she told them, "I know this was not self-defense. There was no punching, no hitting going on at the time, no wrestling."

Who is this Mary Cutcher and what's her testimony? Apparently, she only heard things that she later interpreted into an account of what happened that contradicts what the one eye-witness claims to have seen, as well as the 911 recording.

She's a witness who has been willing to give long interviews to the press that they eat up because she blames all the politically incorrect folks - whites, police, etc. There was an interview with her and her roommate where it's clear that the gunshot happened before she looked out the window. What she says she saw makes perfect sense for the situation after Martin was shot.

What's funny is that the early articles from the local paper had the correct details and facts from the start, but later retellings of the incident that hit the big time media were lacking essential details and were purposely skewed against Zimmerman.

Incidentally, who wants to make some odds on whether or not LA-style race riots erupt if Zimmerman goes free? The US hasn't had any riots in a while, eh?

If Tyrannical is correct, I doubt there will be race riots on the LA scale. If he's correct, the locals already know there are two sides to the story, and nonlocals won't be blaming their own police for it. There may be demonstrations "in support" of Trayvon, but demonstrations need not be riots.