Unarmed teen shooting: Is Florida law to blame?

[mistermack]

Great post Seth.

Poo Poo

[maiforpeace]

Great post Seth.

Poo Poo

[JimC]

14 pages on this, and no Seth?

Speak of the devil...

[Seth]

The real travesty here was that the police department did not simply refer the case to the DA and let the DA put it before the Grand Jury to decide whether to charge the shooter or not.

Except I'm pretty sure that is exactly what they did. The Grand Jury hearing is scheduled for April 10, I believe.

I don't think it was set until after the outcry began, though I'm not certain of this.

[Seth]

In regards to the 'law' part though...wouldn't you agree it's bit misplaced to arrest someone for indecent exposure, but not for killing someone? It could be a given you aren't going to jail them forever anyway - just like drunk driving, but if they might have been off their rocker when they shot the person, wouldn't it be worth it to hold them at least for observation?

EDITED

They would have to have probable cause to believe the shooter was a danger to himself or others due to a mental defect before they can put him on a 72 hour mental evaluation hold. They can't just hold him for observation unless he exhibits behaviors that would lead a reasonable police officer (with training) to believe he was mentally deranged.

Generally if they arrest you for indecent exposure they have probable cause to arrest based on witness testimony. The problem in this case is that there were no direct witnesses and evidently the shooter's story was convincing enough to create questions about probable cause, so they identified him, collected evidence and proceeded with the investigation. At least that's how it should be done. It's possible that's exactly what's going on now, and as was mentioned above, there is a Grand Jury investigation on the schedule.

The problem seems to be that the black community is (not completely unreasonably) jumping to conclusions based on the fact that the shooter was not immediately arrested, jailed, and forced to post bond.

It's not completely unreasonable because I think it's probably pretty clear to the black community that if a black man had shot a white youth, he would be in jail denied bond, and the police would have dismissed any protestations of self-defense on the part of a black man.

This sort of double standard is commonplace in the South, and other places, and it's quite perfectly wrong and abusive, but that's how it is.

So, the black community may have some legitimate grievances as to how the case is being handled and the fact that the white guy is free pending investigation and arrest while a black man in the same position would be cooling his heels in jail, but I think that vigilante mobs of black radicals attempting "citizen's arrest" on the guy is most likely rhetoric, but if actually attempted would likely result in at least rioting and possibly a short-lived race war.

The problem with the whole "citizen's arrest" idea is that in order for someone not a law enforcement officer to arrest someone, usually the crime has to be committed in the presence of the person making the arrest. Only duly authorized police officers are permitted to arrest based only on probable cause.

It's not that the police department necessarily did anything wrong in this case, it's that the same police department has very probably done wrong in many OTHER cases involving black suspects, which would be a violation of the civil rights of those blacks...if they were in a position to assert their civil rights. But now that the spotlight is on the police department, and the Justice Department and FBI are involved, you can be sure that the department's history of handling blacks and whites in PC arrests will be placed under severe scrutiny which may result in sanctions for the PD and/or individual officers.

In that regard, some good may come of the boy's death, even if the shooter is not found guilty.

[Tyrannical]

looks like there is an eye witness

http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/dpp/news/s ... n-03232012

But one man's testimony could be key for the police.

"The guy on the bottom who had a red sweater on was yelling to me: 'help, help…and I told him to stop and I was calling 911," he said.

Trayvon Martin was in a hoodie; Zimmerman was in red.

The witness only wanted to be identified as "John," and didn't not want to be shown on camera.

His statements to police were instrumental, because police backed up Zimmerman's claims, saying those screams on the 911 call are those of Zimmerman.

"When I got upstairs and looked down, the guy who was on top beating up the other guy, was the one laying in the grass, and I believe he was dead at that point," John said.

Zimmerman says the shooting was self defense. According to information released on the Sanford city website, Zimmerman said he was going back to his SUV when he was attacked by the teen.

Honestly, who really thought Trayvon was innocent

[FBM]

Oops.

[maiforpeace]

looks like there is an eye witness

http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/dpp/news/s ... n-03232012

But one man's testimony could be key for the police.

"The guy on the bottom who had a red sweater on was yelling to me: 'help, help…and I told him to stop and I was calling 911," he said.

Trayvon Martin was in a hoodie; Zimmerman was in red.

The witness only wanted to be identified as "John," and didn't not want to be shown on camera.

His statements to police were instrumental, because police backed up Zimmerman's claims, saying those screams on the 911 call are those of Zimmerman.

"When I got upstairs and looked down, the guy who was on top beating up the other guy, was the one laying in the grass, and I believe he was dead at that point," John said.

Zimmerman says the shooting was self defense. According to information released on the Sanford city website, Zimmerman said he was going back to his SUV when he was attacked by the teen.

Honestly, who really thought Trayvon was innocent

Seems to me that news story would have been circulated by now...I wonder why we haven't heard anything on the national news?

[Warren Dew]

The problem seems to be that the black community is (not completely unreasonably) jumping to conclusions based on the fact that the shooter was not immediately arrested, jailed, and forced to post bond.

I think the problem is more that the press decided to report a one sided version which made for a big story, rather than noting that there might be another side to the story, then taking the time to find out what that other side was. Given the way the whole thing was initially reported, peoples' jumping to conclusions was to be expected.

[Warren Dew]

Oops.

Looks like Coito gets to tell everyone "I told you so".

[tattuchu]

"The guy on the bottom who had a red sweater on was yelling to me: 'help, help…and I told him to stop and I was calling 911," he said.

"When I got upstairs and looked down, the guy who was on top beating up the other guy, was the one laying in the grass, and I believe he was dead at that point," John said.

The fuck?

Anyhow, this Zimmerman must sure be a pussy if a kid a hundred pounds lighter beat the shit out of him

[tattuchu]

Oops.

Looks like Coito gets to tell everyone "I told you so".

Not necessarily. We still don't have all the facts. This is just one bit of information, from a witness who can barely speak intelligible English, and reported from a non-reliable "news" source (i.e. propaganda machine). But this is certainly interesting, and the plot thickens...

[Warren Dew]

Anyhow, this Zimmerman must sure be a pussy if a kid a hundred pounds lighter beat the shit out of him

I don't know where people are getting Zimmerman's weight, but I would note that most people who weigh 240 pounds are fat and out of shape.

[tattuchu]

Anyhow, this Zimmerman must sure be a pussy if a kid a hundred pounds lighter beat the shit out of him

I don't know where people are getting Zimmerman's weight, but I would note that most people who weigh 240 pounds are fat and out of shape.

Good point

[FBM]

Oops.

Looks like Coito gets to tell everyone "I told you so".

I don't know about "everyone", but my position all along was that a lot of people have been claiming to know who was guilty or innocent before they had all the information, based on irrelevant emotions, political leanings, stereotypes and statistics that contributed nothing to determining what actually happened on that night between those two people. That remains true regardless of how it turns out. Since I suspended judgement on the issue...