Unarmed teen shooting: Is Florida law to blame?

[maiforpeace]

If such a guy became an armed neighborhood watch captain, the screeners were at fault.

Do we have enough information to draw a conclusion on his guilt, yet?

Well, now that the FBI is involved, that should be determined, eh?

Why didn't the state investigate more thoroughly...seems to me if there was this kind of outrage they would have started with that first...why did your congressperson have to go to the Feds?

[FBM]

Probably the claims of a racial element. Just my guess.

[Svartalf]

If such a guy became an armed neighborhood watch captain, the screeners were at fault.

screeners? man, that's a gated community, they WANT fierce types that will ruthlessly repel anybody not identified as "not an intruder" by any available means.

Huh? What's your image of a gated community in the US? And where did you get that image?

patchwork of unauthoritative sources... internet forums, tv series...
but seriously, why do you want to live in a place that is off limits to outsiders in the first place, and I don't mean just your house and gardens, but even the streets and whatnot? You too good to let fellow citizens use the street in front of your home?

[Coito ergo sum]

If such a guy became an armed neighborhood watch captain, the screeners were at fault.

Do we have enough information to draw a conclusion on his guilt, yet?

Well, now that the FBI is involved, that should be determined, eh?

The FBI involvement is not, to me, an indicator of guilt. It's an indicator of a political element to the event.

Why didn't the state investigate more thoroughly...seems to me if there was this kind of outrage they would have started with that first...why did your congressperson have to go to the Feds?

On what basis do you claim the investigation was not thorough?

Perhaps the congressperson went to the feds because he has constituents clogging his email box with angry letters, and the phone is ringing off the hook from every "Reverend" demanding "justice" or else.

I'm not defending Zimmerman. The 911 tape doesn't sound too good, but it also doesn't sound conclusive. I've seen too many of these things turn out to be quite different than what some dopey reporter summarized in a news article.

[Coito ergo sum]

but seriously, why do you want to live in a place that is off limits to outsiders in the first place, and I don't mean just your house and gardens, but even the streets and whatnot? You too good to let fellow citizens use the street in front of your home?

Some folks like the security that a gated community provides, or at least the feeling of security. It also provides a legal limitation on solicitors coming to your house. There is a nice sign, generally, at the gate, that says "no soliciting" and you don't get people showing up asking you to buy stuff.

There isn't any law against people going into a gated community and driving on the streets and looking around. The way it's set up, though, is that there really isn't any through traffic, and there are no stores or other public facilities in the community. So, there really isn't any reason for non-residents to be hanging about.

It's not about being "better" than anyone else.

[FBM]

If such a guy became an armed neighborhood watch captain, the screeners were at fault.

screeners? man, that's a gated community, they WANT fierce types that will ruthlessly repel anybody not identified as "not an intruder" by any available means.

Huh? What's your image of a gated community in the US? And where did you get that image?

patchwork of unauthoritative sources... internet forums, tv series...
but seriously, why do you want to live in a place that is off limits to outsiders in the first place, and I don't mean just your house and gardens, but even the streets and whatnot? You too good to let fellow citizens use the street in front of your home?

Not me, no, but the kind of people who live in those places are generally arrogant twats or security risks because of their social status, such as gov't officials and celebs, not that those categories are mutually exclusive.

I once got qualified as a security guard so I could do some part-time work while otherwise fucking off. I got assigned to just such a gated community. The overwhelming message I got from the supervisor was 'Don't cause any problems. If there's any problem, use the telephone to solve it.' Nobody wants people shot on or near their property or gated community unless someone's life is in danger. And not the guard's life, either. They couldn't care less about the guard's life compared to their quiet evening of whatever the fuck people like that do in the evenings.

[FBM]

but seriously, why do you want to live in a place that is off limits to outsiders in the first place, and I don't mean just your house and gardens, but even the streets and whatnot? You too good to let fellow citizens use the street in front of your home?

Some folks like the security that a gated community provides, or at least the feeling of security. It also provides a legal limitation on solicitors coming to your house. There is a nice sign, generally, at the gate, that says "no soliciting" and you don't get people showing up asking you to buy stuff.

There isn't any law against people going into a gated community and driving on the streets and looking around. The way it's set up, though, is that there really isn't any through traffic, and there are no stores or other public facilities in the community. So, there really isn't any reason for non-residents to be hanging about.

It's not about being "better" than anyone else.

I beg to differ just a bit. At the place where I was a security guard, anyone driving through the gate had to be ID'd as either a resident or a guest. If they weren't either, they couldn't enter. If they tried to enter anyway, they were legally tresspassing, as the streets weren't public. The police would be called immediately.

[HomerJay]

Damn link doesn't even work!

I accepted jesus for nothing.

[FBM]

Sucker!!

[maiforpeace]

patchwork of unauthoritative sources... internet forums, tv series...
but seriously, why do you want to live in a place that is off limits to outsiders in the first place, and I don't mean just your house and gardens, but even the streets and whatnot? You too good to let fellow citizens use the street in front of your home?

I totally agree with you. Walking around armed and in an offensive mode, by default you are somewhat paranoid. You are expecting to be attacked. I have learned some self defense and am cautious not to go places alone at night, that sort of thing, (and walking around with my purse IN FRONT OF ME ) but otherwise I look at the world I live in as a safe place for me. Yes, crime happens, but living in constant fear of it isn't what I call living. For me, as a small woman who would probably lose in any attack, I never understand how big, able bodied men get so fearful of others especially someone smaller...maybe because they see the same offensive thing in themselves? IF you have a gun, then you're going to assume the other person has one probably.

Anyway, what about the tapes? According to the tapes, he tried to walk away fast when the guy confronted him...he wasn't showing any signs of being an assailant, or offensive. If anybody was exhibiting that, it was the shooter.

[Coito ergo sum]

but seriously, why do you want to live in a place that is off limits to outsiders in the first place, and I don't mean just your house and gardens, but even the streets and whatnot? You too good to let fellow citizens use the street in front of your home?

Some folks like the security that a gated community provides, or at least the feeling of security. It also provides a legal limitation on solicitors coming to your house. There is a nice sign, generally, at the gate, that says "no soliciting" and you don't get people showing up asking you to buy stuff.

There isn't any law against people going into a gated community and driving on the streets and looking around. The way it's set up, though, is that there really isn't any through traffic, and there are no stores or other public facilities in the community. So, there really isn't any reason for non-residents to be hanging about.

It's not about being "better" than anyone else.

I beg to differ just a bit. At the place where I was a security guard, anyone driving through the gate had to be ID'd as either a resident or a guest. If they weren't either, they couldn't enter. If they tried to enter anyway, they were legally tresspassing, as the streets weren't public. The police would be called immediately.

Well, yes, I can see that. Most of the gated communities by me have unmanned gates that you can just drive through behind someone else who punches the code or clicks their remote control.

You are correct that if there is a guard shack with a man there, then they are not going to let you in. But, the bottom line is, what business does a person have going in there if they're not associated with a resident? There are no stores, no public facilities, etc. The residents have created a small community akin to a condominium building. They pay for all the security and amenities.

[FBM]

but seriously, why do you want to live in a place that is off limits to outsiders in the first place, and I don't mean just your house and gardens, but even the streets and whatnot? You too good to let fellow citizens use the street in front of your home?

Some folks like the security that a gated community provides, or at least the feeling of security. It also provides a legal limitation on solicitors coming to your house. There is a nice sign, generally, at the gate, that says "no soliciting" and you don't get people showing up asking you to buy stuff.

There isn't any law against people going into a gated community and driving on the streets and looking around. The way it's set up, though, is that there really isn't any through traffic, and there are no stores or other public facilities in the community. So, there really isn't any reason for non-residents to be hanging about.

It's not about being "better" than anyone else.

I beg to differ just a bit. At the place where I was a security guard, anyone driving through the gate had to be ID'd as either a resident or a guest. If they weren't either, they couldn't enter. If they tried to enter anyway, they were legally tresspassing, as the streets weren't public. The police would be called immediately.

Well, yes, I can see that. Most of the gated communities by me have unmanned gates that you can just drive through behind someone else who punches the code or clicks their remote control.

You are correct that if there is a guard shack with a man there, then they are not going to let you in. But, the bottom line is, what business does a person have going in there if they're not associated with a resident? There are no stores, no public facilities, etc. The residents have created a small community akin to a condominium building. They pay for all the security and amenities.

Papparazi, thieves, assassins...

[Coito ergo sum]

Anyway, what about the tapes? According to the tapes, he tried to walk away fast when the guy confronted him...he wasn't showing any signs of being an assailant, or offensive. If anybody was exhibiting that, it was the shooter.

The audio doesn't seem helpful to Zimmerman. However, the tapes are also not the full story. Couple that with the fact that news stories invariably get the facts wrong in some way, and we have plenty of room for there to be more information that we are presently unaware of, or of which we are presently unaware.

[maiforpeace]

So, if you're a battered spouse just move to a 'stand your ground law' state like Florida...that'll take care of your problem.

[FBM]

So, if you're a battered spouse just move to a 'stand your ground law' state like Florida...that'll take care of your problem.

Not quite. You'll also need a firearm and the skills to use it effectively. But I'm glad that battered wives in those states don't have to prove that they tried to run away first. On average, most men can outrun most women, and exposing your back to an assailant is hardly ever a good idea if you value survival.