United States of North America? (What-iffing)

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Say a miracle occurs and the United States takes control of Canada in that little "police action" that started 200 years ago today. (Link for non-Merkins/non-Canadians as the rest of the world doesn't give a damn about that war.)

First, what are we talking about? Here's a map of The Canadas, Upper and Lower Canada, the orange and green bits. (Spoilered cus it are biggerish.)

Trigger Warning!!!1! :

One problem I see with this is that it throws the balance between the Merkin North and South into even more of an imbalance. I think the urge for secession would have progressed more quickly in this situation.

[Coito ergo sum]

Are War Plans Red or Orange still in effect? I'm still thinkin' Limey is going to invade through Canada....

I would say that the first move would be to disband all American teams from the National Hockey League. That would leave the Canucks with, well, the Canucks, the Oilers, the Habs, and the Leafs, right? Can't have a hockey league with five teams. The NHL would fail, and without Hockey Night In Canada, the general populace would erupt in civil disobedience. They would raid the Beer Stores, and collapse the national economy.

Canada would be ours without a fight!

[MrJonno]

Are War Plans Red or Orange still in effect? I'm still thinkin' Limey is going to invade through Canada....

I would say that the first move would be to disband all American teams from the National Hockey League. That would leave the Canucks with, well, the Canucks, the Oilers, the Habs, and the Leafs, right? Can't have a hockey league with five teams. The NHL would fail, and without Hockey Night In Canada, the general populace would erupt in civil disobedience. They would raid the Beer Stores, and collapse the national economy.

Canada would be ours without a fight!

The Scottish Premier football (round ball) only have 2 teams that have the slightest chance of ever winning and one of those has just gone bankrupt so I see a flaw in your plan

[Coito ergo sum]

Are War Plans Red or Orange still in effect? I'm still thinkin' Limey is going to invade through Canada....

I would say that the first move would be to disband all American teams from the National Hockey League. That would leave the Canucks with, well, the Canucks, the Oilers, the Habs, and the Leafs, right? Can't have a hockey league with five teams. The NHL would fail, and without Hockey Night In Canada, the general populace would erupt in civil disobedience. They would raid the Beer Stores, and collapse the national economy.

Canada would be ours without a fight!

The Scottish Premier football (round ball) only have 2 teams that have the slightest chance of ever winning and one of those has just gone bankrupt so I see a flaw in your plan

Well, the factor you're missing, is that most of the players on the American teams are Canadian. So, they'll be deported back to Canadaland, and they will all be competing for the same few spots on four or five hockey teams. They don't have enough of a population to sustain more teams, so the salaries for NHL players in Canada will plummet and there will be a general hockey strike. Without any hockey to keep the populace pacified, Ottawa will be unable to face both civil unrest and an American invasion from the South.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Are War Plans Red or Orange still in effect? I'm still thinkin' Limey is going to invade through Canada....

Neither one was ever in effect. Plans go into effect when the order goes out. "Execute WPL Rainbow-5 against Japan" went out on the afternoon of Dec. 7th, 1941, Washington time. (Rainbow replaced Orange when we realized we might have to fight Germany and Japan at the same time.) As we never moved on Canada WPL Red was never in effect.

[Coito ergo sum]

Watch out for the Canadian Defense Forces:

[Xamonas Chegwé]

What is this thread aboat?

[Gawdzilla Sama]

What is this thread aboat?

The what-if that the US won the War of 1812 in Canada and brought the provinces into the Union.

[Coito ergo sum]

Perhaps some questions on a more serious note to get talking about zilla's question...

The US would have gone on to become the largest single country in the world by land mass.

I wonder, would Russia have sold us Alaska, if the US already had all of Canada? Would we have had the political drive to purchase Alaska at the time?

What of the Mexican War -- would the opening of land in the North have directed settlers other than to Texas, and would there have been less pressure on Americans to move into the southern areas. Would there have been a Mexican War?

Would the existence of Canadian states in the United States have had an impact on the Civil War. They most certainly would have been free states. Would that have tipped the balance of power toward the north earlier and either started the civil war sooner, or rendered the south so much less powerful that they could not have stood up the north for as long as they did in reality?

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Russia needed money. The deal would have gone through.

Mexican-American War, I think it would have been fought regardless. The seeds were there before 1812.

The concern over the imbalance of free vs. slave states was a major issue in the antebellum US. This would have made it even worse.

[Horwood Beer-Master]

What is this thread aboat?

The what-if that the US won the War of 1812 in Canada and brought the provinces into the Union.

What if it had gone the other way, and some of the more northerly of the 18(?) states had ended-up back in the warm embrace of the empire?

I'd imagine the impact on history there would have been even greater.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

What is this thread aboat?

The what-if that the US won the War of 1812 in Canada and brought the provinces into the Union.

What if it had gone the other way, and some of the more northerly of the 18(?) states had ended-up back in the warm embrace of the empire?

I'd imagine the impact on history there would have been even greater.

Meh, who needs Maine?

[Coito ergo sum]

Russia needed money. The deal would have gone through.

Mexican-American War, I think it would have been fought regardless. The seeds were there before 1812.

The concern over the imbalance of free vs. slave states was a major issue in the antebellum US. This would have made it even worse.

I think that the south might have had to secede earlier than it did. There would be no way to make a compromise and have some of the Canadian states enter as slave states -- the south would have been overwhelmed. I wonder if we would have had a civil war in the 1840's instead of the 1860s and if that early civil war occurred, then that would have changed the dynamic relative to the Mexican War.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Russia needed money. The deal would have gone through.

Mexican-American War, I think it would have been fought regardless. The seeds were there before 1812.

The concern over the imbalance of free vs. slave states was a major issue in the antebellum US. This would have made it even worse.

I think that the south might have had to secede earlier than it did. There would be no way to make a compromise and have some of the Canadian states enter as slave states -- the south would have been overwhelmed. I wonder if we would have had a civil war in the 1840's instead of the 1860s and if that early civil war occurred, then that would have changed the dynamic relative to the Mexican War.

If the ACW was fought in 1841-1845 I doubt we'd have gone filibustering in 1848.

[MrJonno]

Are War Plans Red or Orange still in effect? I'm still thinkin' Limey is going to invade through Canada....

I would say that the first move would be to disband all American teams from the National Hockey League. That would leave the Canucks with, well, the Canucks, the Oilers, the Habs, and the Leafs, right? Can't have a hockey league with five teams. The NHL would fail, and without Hockey Night In Canada, the general populace would erupt in civil disobedience. They would raid the Beer Stores, and collapse the national economy.

Canada would be ours without a fight!

The Scottish Premier football (round ball) only have 2 teams that have the slightest chance of ever winning and one of those has just gone bankrupt so I see a flaw in your plan

Well, the factor you're missing, is that most of the players on the American teams are Canadian. So, they'll be deported back to Canadaland, and they will all be competing for the same few spots on four or five hockey teams. They don't have enough of a population to sustain more teams, so the salaries for NHL players in Canada will plummet and there will be a general hockey strike. Without any hockey to keep the populace pacified, Ottawa will be unable to face both civil unrest and an American invasion from the South.

You think most players in the Scottish or English leagues are Scottish or English, is that air you are breathing?.

Why would anyone deport anyone that brought lots of money into the economy, and you are forgeting fellow Commonwealth nation Australia. They actually murder any babies who don't show a talent for sport in their first month by throwing them of a mountain. It must be true as you can't be Australian and not be good at sport