Parenting with a .45

[Seth]

If the parents of Klebold and Harris had been as caring and concerned as this father is, thirteen people might still be alive.

Right! If you teach kids that destruction, preferably with a firearm involved, of what you don't like is the answer then there won't be any more rampages.

Well, there's a point there, a sledgehammer would have been more appropriate perhaps. But it wouldn't have made YouTube and people wouldn't be having discussions about parental discipline, so on balance, guns being ubiquitous in the rural south in America, it's not like it was particularly shocking.

And the lesson wasn't "destruction of what you don't like" it's "if you disrespect your parents, you will be harshly punished."

That's a reasonable and necessary lesson to teach any teenager.

[Robert_S]

Let's take a look at some country with a really low crime rate and see what their take on his is...

[Tyrannical]

What a tremendous asshole. I wanted to give him a chance despite his idiotic cowboy hat, but hated him as soon as he started to speak with that sub-moronic Southern drawl. Every word he spoke made me hate him more and more. I hope his daughter takes his gun while he's sleeping and shoots him in the fucking face with it.

Isn't it it time to take your pills

[Tyrannical]

I think he should be made a Lord Justice in the UK in charge of dealing with yobs (or is that chavs?)
Bad parenting to blame? He can go over and kick their TV in

[Thumpalumpacus]

Massive parenting fail. In the end, the authority of a parent is based upon their maturity. What he just taught her is that if you don't like what someone does to you, you should throw a tantrum, break their stuff, make a video, and let the entire world in on your family's issues.

Nice job, Dad. Now grow the fuck up. As the parent of a fourteen-year-old, I understand your frustratration, but let's face it: you've just entered into a contest with your teenager to see who is more immature. Even if you win, you lose.

Next time, think more, and post less.

[Warren Dew]

But to get back to my main point-- nowhere in that video did Dad claim daughter wasn't doing the chores on her list.

I believe he claimed that her list was imaginary. She seemed to be doing the chores on his list - sweeping, wiping down the counters if necessary, putting away already clean dishes, and doing her own laundry - but his list was considerably shorter than her list. I strongly suspect that he and her mother were fed up with a lot more than the Facebook posting.

All right, Dad wants her to get a job, learn the value of money? Fine. Deal with that.

Ironically, I think the best way to deal with that would have been to do exactly what she suggested - to pay her for the chores she did, starting before she was a teen. If he'd done that, she'd understand the concept of exchanging labor for money, and would be a lot closer to getting a job now.

I do think he sees destroying the laptop, if that's what he really did, as a way of addressing the problem. If the only way she can replace the laptop is to get a job so she can buy one of her own, then she has more incentive to get a job.

That assumes that it's incentive that's lacking in her getting a job, though. I question whether that's really the issue.

[Seth]

But to get back to my main point-- nowhere in that video did Dad claim daughter wasn't doing the chores on her list.

I believe he claimed that her list was imaginary. She seemed to be doing the chores on his list - sweeping, wiping down the counters if necessary, putting away already clean dishes, and doing her own laundry - but his list was considerably shorter than her list. I strongly suspect that he and her mother were fed up with a lot more than the Facebook posting.

All right, Dad wants her to get a job, learn the value of money? Fine. Deal with that.

Ironically, I think the best way to deal with that would have been to do exactly what she suggested - to pay her for the chores she did, starting before she was a teen. If he'd done that, she'd understand the concept of exchanging labor for money, and would be a lot closer to getting a job now.

I do think he sees destroying the laptop, if that's what he really did, as a way of addressing the problem. If the only way she can replace the laptop is to get a job so she can buy one of her own, then she has more incentive to get a job.

That assumes that it's incentive that's lacking in her getting a job, though. I question whether that's really the issue.

Families are not capitalistic, they are dictatorships, and they need to be dictatorships so that children will learn obedience to authority and the skills they need to hold down jobs in the real world. The girl lives in the house, she consumes food, sheds skin cells, dirties clothes, brings in dirt and otherwise participates in creating the workload of the household. Therefore, from the ethical and moral perspective she owes her labor because she benefits from the existence of the household, which is provided for by her parents.

If she's going to get paid for doing chores (which means they aren't "chores") then she must also pay for enjoying the benefits of the household by paying rent on her room, for her clothing, food, toys, entertainment and everything else she consumes or enjoys in the home.

Now, I'm fine with that if that's how how you think commerce ought to proceed, but giving her money for doing work that's expected as part of being a member of the household who benefits from having the chores done is just pandering to her obstinance and selfishness.

Better she just does her chores and learns that life is a bitch most of the time and there ain't nothing free, but it can also cost you way more than you'd like to pay if you don't play by the rules.

[Warren Dew]

Families are not capitalistic, they are dictatorships, and they need to be dictatorships so that children will learn obedience to authority and the skills they need to hold down jobs in the real world.

I'm thinking the jobs I've held have been different from those you've held. "Obedience to authority" was not one of the primary skills I've had to exercise in my employment, as I've had employers who valued my contribution and recognized that it included advising authority when authority was mistaken. "Thinking clearly" and "being productive" have been far more important for me.

I do agree that families are dictatorships - or oligarchies that still look like dictatorships to the children - but good families are benevolent dictatorships. And the structure of modern society is such that people can't live in their families forever, so it behooves a parent to prepare children for society at large, which is not a dictatorship.

Therefore, from the ethical and moral perspective she owes her labor because she benefits from the existence of the household, which is provided for by her parents.

True. However, from an ethical and moral perspective, the it's also within the parent's purview to waive those requirements if they think best.

I'm not arguing that the person in the video was ethically or morally in the wrong. I'm arguing that from a practical standpoint, he didn't do what would best fulfill his goals for his children. He's certainly within his rights to take his course, but the parents in this thread are within their rights to take a different course if they think a different course would be more effective.

If she's going to get paid for doing chores (which means they aren't "chores") then she must also pay for enjoying the benefits of the household by paying rent on her room, for her clothing, food, toys, entertainment and everything else she consumes or enjoys in the home.

I think it may be effective to teach one concept at a time. I'm also only talking about teaching concepts - I'm not talking about implementing a full fledged market economy.

That said, I do know some people have also been effective at teaching their children budgeting skills by making them responsible for buying their own clothing and such.

Now, I'm fine with that if that's how how you think commerce ought to proceed, but giving her money for doing work that's expected as part of being a member of the household who benefits from having the chores done is just pandering to her obstinance and selfishness.

This is why I think the concepts should have been taught earlier, before she was an obstinate and selfish teenager.

Better she just does her chores and learns that life is a bitch most of the time and there ain't nothing free, but it can also cost you way more than you'd like to pay if you don't play by the rules.

That nothing is free, sure, but I'd rather raise my children as part of a generation that doesn't accept arbitrarily draconian rules. In a democratic society, they should be able to work for rules that are better than that.

[Robert_S]

Obey! When daddy tells you to fetch him some rope to lynch the nigger with, you obey!!! When daddy tells you to shoot the daughter who got herself raped you obey!

Obedience is necessary, but you seem to jump on it awfully quick Seth.

[hadespussercats]

But to get back to my main point-- nowhere in that video did Dad claim daughter wasn't doing the chores on her list.

I believe he claimed that her list was imaginary. She seemed to be doing the chores on his list - sweeping, wiping down the counters if necessary, putting away already clean dishes, and doing her own laundry - but his list was considerably shorter than her list. I strongly suspect that he and her mother were fed up with a lot more than the Facebook posting.

All right, Dad wants her to get a job, learn the value of money? Fine. Deal with that.

Ironically, I think the best way to deal with that would have been to do exactly what she suggested - to pay her for the chores she did, starting before she was a teen. If he'd done that, she'd understand the concept of exchanging labor for money, and would be a lot closer to getting a job now.

I do think he sees destroying the laptop, if that's what he really did, as a way of addressing the problem. If the only way she can replace the laptop is to get a job so she can buy one of her own, then she has more incentive to get a job.

That assumes that it's incentive that's lacking in her getting a job, though. I question whether that's really the issue.

Like I said-- I don't have a problem with him removing goods and telling her she needs to earn her own. The shoot-em-up part is what I thought was counterproductive-- like he'd been disgraced online and needed to re-establish coolness with all her Facebook friends. Lame. Immature to boot.

Re the list-- he explained her description was inflated, but said they'd had to write down a list for her in the kitchen, or she wouldn't remember.

But it sounds like she was keeping up with her chores. She just hadn't gotten a job yet.

If his point were: "Clearly you have time enough to fuck around on Facebook, so you must have time for a job-- especially, if I take your FB privileges away," again, that would have seemed reasonable.

[Seth]

Obey! When daddy tells you to fetch him some rope to lynch the nigger with, you obey!!! When daddy tells you to shoot the daughter who got herself raped you obey!

Obedience is necessary, but you seem to jump on it awfully quick Seth.

Your comments are idiotic hyperbole and you know it.

[Robert_S]

Obey! When daddy tells you to fetch him some rope to lynch the nigger with, you obey!!! When daddy tells you to shoot the daughter who got herself raped you obey!

Obedience is necessary, but you seem to jump on it awfully quick Seth.

Your comments are idiotic hyperbole and you know it.

That sort of thing has happened and is happening and you know it. You are the one who just loves to throw the term "obedience" out there as such a virtue as if you've never heard of the Milgram experiment.

[hadespussercats]

That assumes that it's incentive that's lacking in her getting a job, though. I question whether that's really the issue.

Actually, so do I. Aside from the bitching, her letter seemed to be about feeling like she couldn't keep up with what she had to do already, and was scared about taking on the extra responsibility of a job. I don't know the real situation, just what I see here. But It'd be nice if he offered some guidance along with the discipline.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Stupid to destroy the computer. I would marched her into Goodwill have her hand it over to them.

I'd never give a puter to goodwill without thorougly formatting the HD first, and while she might have the savvy to do that, I doubt he does, or the brains to tell her to.

That's the point, 'doof. Her computer with all her shit on it goes to some stranger. Sexting pix, saved email, address book, all gone.

[hadespussercats]

Stupid to destroy the computer. I would marched her into Goodwill have her hand it over to them.

I'd never give a puter to goodwill without thorougly formatting the HD first, and while she might have the savvy to do that, I doubt he does, or the brains to tell her to.

That's the point, 'doof. Her computer with all her shit on it goes to some stranger. Sexting pix, saved email, address book, all gone.

You guys should watch the video. Dad works in IT, and spent all day the day before installing new software and updating her laptop-- why he had the opportunity to check out her FB in the first place.

He may be a hick with a stutter. That doesn't make him stupid.