Herman Cain: It's Your Fault if You're Unemployed

[MattShizzle]

Get the impression some people think if you go around your local high street handing out your CV someone will say go nice initiative here's a job.

The only people in the US who have a "CV" are university professors. It's called a "resume" here (and the really crappy jobs just use an "application.")

[Warren Dew]

I don't know any college graduate that doesn't make at least twice minimum wage.

I do. Most are just supported by their husbands, but some have degrees that are basically useless in the marketplace, and a few simply don't know how to look for jobs. I've hired a few in that last category.

[Coito ergo sum]

Find it weird you think getting a bar tender job is easy?

I never said it was easy. I said there is a job available. The first step is to apply. A person can lay around complaining about how hard it is, or they can do it. Applying doesn't guarantee you'll get hired. You cant' possibly get hired if you don't apply. It was just an example.

It's a high responsible relatively complex job, careless in serving underage people in the UK and your bar will be shut down and believe the US is even stricter on that.

Get the impression some people think if you go around your local high street handing out your CV someone will say go nice initiative here's a job when these days hiring someone you don't know of the streets is something that simply something that make have happened in the 1950's but is quite alien in the day of human resources departments.

Can't get a job without applying for one.

There are two ways to do it:

1. Decide what you want to do - see what's out there and what's available, find out the requirements, and do what needs to be done to meet the requirements. Apply.

2. Decide to take an available job, not specifically tied to your preferences: see what's out there, find out the requirements, and do what needs to be done to meet the requirements. Apply.

In opting for either path (or deciding to try both paths at the same time), one ought to network, meaning get out there and pound the pavement. Go to local Chamber of Commerce meetings, job fairs, and events, shake hands, meet people, pass out your resume/CV, tell people you're looking for work, and tell them what you offer. With the online community, there are groups to join on meetup.com, facebook, linkedin, etc., to start networking and socializing with potential employers and potential coworkers.

Jobs don't come looking for you. You need to go get them.

[Coito ergo sum]

Get the impression some people think if you go around your local high street handing out your CV someone will say go nice initiative here's a job.

The only people in the US who have a "CV" are university professors. It's called a "resume" here (and the really crappy jobs just use an "application.")

It never hurts to be more professional than the job requires. So, even if a job doesn't require a resume, submitting one wherever possible is still a good idea.

Aggressive follow-up is a plus, too - aggressive but polite and professional, of course. Apply, and then dig - find out who receives the applications and call them. Find out who is making the decision and meet them. Send follow-up communications in respectful intervals and in polite and professional manners, and express your desire and qualifications for the job. Be hungrier than the rest.

When I have done job searches, I looked at it as a job in and of itself. I set deadlines for myself, and production goals. I would spend time daily reviewing sources for potential employers, and apply to every job available in the area I was looking for. I had several versions of standard form cover letters, and several versions of my resume which could be tailored to particular jobs. The idea is to start selling yourself from the get-go.

Find out about the company you're applying for. Call them and try to find out about the job position, who is making the decision, and what their decision time-line is. If you can get a contact person, make a friend - people would be surprised how much you can get someone you don't even know to do for you by just being friendly and polite, and asking them for what you need.

Just sending in a resume by email, and sitting back and waiting for a response is the wrong way to go about it.

[MrJonno]

I think the main issue is actually getting started as I've got older and a bit more skilled apart from the occassional ups and downs in the economy its got easier to get a job

For someone who is 16-18 with no family contacts getting a minimum wage job is very very hard far harder than getting a middle class professional job once you have a few qualifications/experience. (I got rejected many times from Mcdonalds,cafes and bars when I was younger)

[Hermit]

I said there is a job available.

...and for every available job in the US there are 4.7 unemployed. It's fine and dandy to say you need to apply for jobs, but if all available jobs were filled, you'd still have 11 million people out of work.

[Seth]

I think the main issue is actually getting started as I've got older and a bit more skilled apart from the occassional ups and downs in the economy its got easier to get a job

For someone who is 16-18 with no family contacts getting a minimum wage job is very very hard far harder than getting a middle class professional job once you have a few qualifications/experience. (I got rejected many times from Mcdonalds,cafes and bars when I was younger)

And you can thank liberal/progressive/socialist minimum wage laws for that fact.

When minimum wage laws dictate what an employer has to pay entry-level workers there is absolutely no incentive whatsoever to hire unskilled, new, entry-skill workers and employers will usually opt to hire "underemployed" but more experienced and skilled employees, so as to get the most bang for their buck.

The practical effect of increases in the minimum wage in the US is that fewer and fewer high school age persons are able to find entry-level employment. In minority neighborhoods, the black unemployment rate is as high as 45 percent in some places because employers have plenty of older, more stable, more reliable and more motivated workers to select from.

In the old days, a young man or woman could seek an apprenticeship in a trade or craft in which they would work and learn the trade in exchange for room, board and perhaps a small amount of pocket money. This worked well because the journeyman or master craftsman got cheap labor to assist him while at the same time bringing up a new generation of craftsmen to follow him and help him to expand his business, and the apprentice was able to get by and learn the trade in exchange for the scut-work of apprenticeship.

Minimum wage laws eliminated the possibility of serving an apprenticeship in a trade or craft because, when there are skilled journeyman laborers available, and a master craftsman has to pay an unskilled apprentice the same as someone with demonstrable skills, he's going to hire the skilled employee over taking an apprentice.

Exactly the same paradigm exists with minimum wage laws and entry-level minimally-skilled positions that give youth the opportunity to build skills and a work ethic and history. Because the minimum wage prices them out of the market, they are left without jobs and without skills, all thanks to liberals, progressives and socialists, who are incapable of understanding the simple economics involved.

Get rid of minimum wage laws and employers will hire high-school kids to flip burgers, giving them an opportunity to learn and build a work history, which they will need as they advance up the economic ladder.

[Seth]

I said there is a job available.

...and for every available job in the US there are 4.7 unemployed. It's fine and dandy to say you need to apply for jobs, but if all available jobs were filled, you'd still have 11 million people out of work.

So? A five percent unemployment rate is desirable for an economy because it keeps the competition in the labor market robust and encourages workers to strive to keep their jobs. When employment nears 100 percent, workers tend to slack off and service suffers, to the detriment of the employer's ability to sell products and make a profit.

This was the case in the 80's and early 90's, when the US economy was on fire and finding employees was difficult. The competition for skilled employees drove wages up (as it should when the resource is scarce in a free market) and low-end jobs went unfilled or were filled with unqualified and frequently incompetent employees who didn't care about giving a day's work for a day's pay. This effect could be seen at any fast-food outlet, where surly, rude, abusive incompetent counter employees could get away with murder and drive customers away because managers simply could not fill their open positions and had to put up with incompetence just to keep the doors open.

When the job market crashed and people started getting laid off, the attitude, responsiveness, politeness and ability to actually get an order right took a tremendous positive leap as managers were able to fire incompetent employees and hire more stable, more reliable and more motivated older employees to replace them.

Nowadays it's a pleasure to go to a Wendy's because the folks working there are generally older (often very old) adults who have a vested interest in keeping their jobs by making the customer happy.

I recall being stuck in a Burger King drive-thru at Lowry AFB one time for one hour and forty minutes because there were a bunch of complete morons working that weekend who couldn't take an order, couldn't cook or bag an order, and couldn't make change.

Recessions at least mean you generally get good customer service.

[Tyrannical]

Cheap foreign labor, through immigration, off-shore contracting, and out sourced manufacturing has caused US wages to fall. Especially among the lower skilled jobs.
The government through welfare benefits subsidizes companies that don't pay living wages to their employees.

Cutting immigration and import tariffs on goods from cheap labor countries would raise domestic wages as labor becomes more tight.

[Hermit]

I said there is a job available.

...and for every available job in the US there are 4.7 unemployed. It's fine and dandy to say you need to apply for jobs, but if all available jobs were filled, you'd still have 11 million people out of work.

So?

So, as long as there are 4.7 people for each job vacancy, it's a bit difficult to argue that the excess unemployed are not working because they have chosen not to work, or that they are not working because they are indolent.

[Warren Dew]

Cheap foreign labor, through immigration, off-shore contracting, and out sourced manufacturing has caused US wages to fall. Especially among the lower skilled jobs.
The government through welfare benefits subsidizes companies that don't pay living wages to their employees.

Cutting immigration and import tariffs on goods from cheap labor countries would raise domestic wages as labor becomes more tight.

It's so easy to offshore those McDonald's fast food jobs, eh?

I'd certainly agree with enforcing existing immigration law. Import tariffs would raise prices, reducing the standard of living for everyone, though.

[MattShizzle]

Enforcing immigration law wouldn't work. Not only are most US citizens not WILLING to work at the jobs illegal immigrants do, let alone for the wages they do it for (unless you want $10 a head lettuce you couldn't afford US wages) - most US citizens aren't anywhere close to being in good enough shape to be ABLE to do those jobs.

[Warren Dew]

U.S. law provides for legal temporary agricultural workers. The only reason people don't use that program is because the laws against the illegal workers are not adequately enforced.

[Seth]

I said there is a job available.

...and for every available job in the US there are 4.7 unemployed. It's fine and dandy to say you need to apply for jobs, but if all available jobs were filled, you'd still have 11 million people out of work.

So?

So, as long as there are 4.7 people for each job vacancy, it's a bit difficult to argue that the excess unemployed are not working because they have chosen not to work, or that they are not working because they are indolent.

Where do you get that number?

If there are 11 million Americans unemployed, we need to send the 12 million Mexicans back to Mexico and give their jobs to Americans...except that Americans don't want and won't work at those jobs unless they are very, very hungry and the government stops giving them money to remain unemployed.

[Seth]

Enforcing immigration law wouldn't work. Not only are most US citizens not WILLING to work at the jobs illegal immigrants do, let alone for the wages they do it for (unless you want $10 a head lettuce you couldn't afford US wages) - most US citizens aren't anywhere close to being in good enough shape to be ABLE to do those jobs.

Yup. Fair point.

Which is why I have little sympathy for the obese unemployed Americans who COULD work but choose not to. The best way to solve obesity is to quit eating more calories than you expend each day, and stoop labor in the fields and cleaning toilets is a great way to get in shape.