Dawkins on Alien Rubbish

[Exi5tentialist]

Ironically, Brits are not 40% believers in creation and a 6000 yo Earth and the book of Revelation as a prediction of imminent end of days so let's make decisions to fulfill that prophesy

But we have a non-secular state, and religious indoctrination in our schools. Why are we Brits so enlightened? Surely we should all be parroting out what our RE teachers told us?

There may be something to this ... but it's fucking complex.

Also, just because it happened this way in the past doesn't mean contriving to recapture elements of it will work in the future ... again for complex reasons.

Who's seeking to recapture the past? I'm not.

[Rum]

It is utter rubbish to say we have religious indoctrination in our school here in the UK. We have religion lessons and assemblies. There is a legal duty to hold an observance, but children are not indoctrinated in the slightest.

[Ian]

Sounds like Britain doesn't have separation of church and state.

It doesn't. We have a state religion, with the head of state also being head of the church.

And yet our officially secular country considers your theocracy to be an ally. What hypocrites we are to deal with the likes of you.

I'd be happier if the Queen at least switched the state religion from "Church of England" to "Jedi".

I'd suggest the power of religion doesn't lie in the structure of the state. It lies in cultural assumptions underpinning the configuration of capitalism. In that respect this close alliance is perfectly understandable.

Ummm... yeah...
I was making a joke. We do that around here from time to time.

[charlou]

Ironically, Brits are not 40% believers in creation and a 6000 yo Earth and the book of Revelation as a prediction of imminent end of days so let's make decisions to fulfill that prophesy

But we have a non-secular state, and religious indoctrination in our schools. Why are we Brits so enlightened? Surely we should all be parroting out what our RE teachers told us?

There may be something to this ... but it's fucking complex.

Also, just because it happened this way in the past doesn't mean contriving to recapture elements of it will work in the future ... again for complex reasons.

Who's seeking to recapture the past? I'm not.

You don't think the past is responsible for the present? That's part of the point I thought you were driving at.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

It is utter rubbish to say we have religious indoctrination in our school here in the UK. We have religion lessons and assemblies. There is a legal duty to hold an observance, but children are not indoctrinated in the slightest.

Really? (That's a serious question.)

[Coito ergo sum]

You don't know the first thing about algebra, do you? Never took it, I assume?

It is hard to take the rest of your post seriously given this assertion; I have no idea how you reached that conclusion.

From the fact that you actually, seriously expressly the idea that as part of learning algebra, one would be engaged in astronomy and oceanography. Learning algebra in primary school is about learning how to solve algebra problems.

Only to say that I was right, you have confirmed you are against all free speech in schools.

What do you mean "confirmed?" I've repeated myself twice - there was no mystery. Of course I am not in favor of free speech in schools - as I said, when the teacher says it's time to deal with algebra problems, the students are not free to speech. When the teachers say to be silent while walking down the hall because others are trying to lean in adjacent rooms, then there is no free speech. When children want to talk about Playstation games, but it's time to learn history, then there is no free speech. How much clearer do you need me to be?

....3.....2......1.... waiting for next post will be "aha! see! see! I got you! You don't really believe in free speech in grammar schools, middle schools and high schools!!!"

I am surprised that you take the view that history students must shut up and listen.

If the teacher says to, yes. School can't be a free for all. There has to be order, because otherwise everyone would be talking over each other. Naturally, interaction between students and teachers is necessary and appropriate. However, that doesn't mean "free speech" as in - say whatever you want whenever you want - if it's history class, and some kid wants to talk about masturbation, I think the teacher should appropriately shut him up. Don't you?

Have you got anything to do with education, may I ask?

I hope to every god that anyone ever believed in that you are as far away from any school as is humanly possible. If you're a teacher, I weep for the future...

[Geoff]

It is utter rubbish to say we have religious indoctrination in our school here in the UK. We have religion lessons and assemblies. There is a legal duty to hold an observance, but children are not indoctrinated in the slightest.

That depends on the individual school - many do indoctrinate, and not just the faith schools.

[Exi5tentialist]

It is utter rubbish to say we have religious indoctrination in our school here in the UK. We have religion lessons and assemblies. There is a legal duty to hold an observance, but children are not indoctrinated in the slightest.

Hmmmm... I'd like to agree, but I'd take a different view. The way I see it there is a lot of religious indoctrination, but it doesn't work very well. In fact the evidence is that schools seem to be giving up on it, it's such a waste of time as indoctrination, being a complete failure.

What I'm talking about is something a bit different from religious indoctrination; it's more about students getting an opportunity to listen to some people explaining their position, if they want to take it up.

[Bella Fortuna]

It is utter rubbish to say we have religious indoctrination in our school here in the UK. We have religion lessons and assemblies. There is a legal duty to hold an observance, but children are not indoctrinated in the slightest.

The first rule of indoctrination club is to deny indoctrination...

[Coito ergo sum]

Ironically, Brits are not 40% believers in creation and a 6000 yo Earth and the book of Revelation as a prediction of imminent end of days so let's make decisions to fulfill that prophesy

But we have a non-secular state, and religious indoctrination in our schools. Why are we Brits so enlightened? Surely we should all be parroting out what our RE teachers told us?

First you'll need to establish that "Brits are so enlightened." I leave you to your proofs.

[Ronja]

It is utter rubbish to say we have religious indoctrination in our school here in the UK. We have religion lessons and assemblies. There is a legal duty to hold an observance, but children are not indoctrinated in the slightest.

Really? (That's a serious question.)

I kind of jumped at the words "the slightest" - so I would also like to hear how Rum justifies that. (and sorry Rum if you have already answered that, I have not read the whole thread yet)

[Exi5tentialist]

You don't know the first thing about algebra, do you? Never took it, I assume?

It is hard to take the rest of your post seriously given this assertion; I have no idea how you reached that conclusion.

From the fact that you actually, seriously expressly the idea that as part of learning algebra, one would be engaged in astronomy and oceanography. Learning algebra in primary school is about learning how to solve algebra problems.

Only to say that I was right, you have confirmed you are against all free speech in schools.

What do you mean "confirmed?" I've repeated myself twice - there was no mystery. Of course I am not in favor of free speech in schools - as I said, when the teacher says it's time to deal with algebra problems, the students are not free to speech. When the teachers say to be silent while walking down the hall because others are trying to lean in adjacent rooms, then there is no free speech. When children want to talk about Playstation games, but it's time to learn history, then there is no free speech. How much clearer do you need me to be?

....3.....2......1.... waiting for next post will be "aha! see! see! I got you! You don't really believe in free speech in grammar schools, middle schools and high schools!!!"

I am surprised that you take the view that history students must shut up and listen.

If the teacher says to, yes. School can't be a free for all. There has to be order, because otherwise everyone would be talking over each other. Naturally, interaction between students and teachers is necessary and appropriate. However, that doesn't mean "free speech" as in - say whatever you want whenever you want - if it's history class, and some kid wants to talk about masturbation, I think the teacher should appropriately shut him up. Don't you?

Have you got anything to do with education, may I ask?

I hope to every god that anyone ever believed in that you are as far away from any school as is humanly possible. If you're a teacher, I weep for the future...

Your post indicates to have not read what I wrote. I am in favour of introducing students to the concept of free speech. You seem to think I am advocate absolute free speech in schools all the time. Please could you read my posts again, and re-work your post on the basis of what I have actually said. Thank you.

[Exi5tentialist]

You don't think the past is responsible for the present? That's part of the point I thought you were driving at.

No, not in the slightest. We are all responsible for the present. The present is all there is.

[Ian]

Ironically, Brits are not 40% believers in creation and a 6000 yo Earth and the book of Revelation as a prediction of imminent end of days so let's make decisions to fulfill that prophesy

But we have a non-secular state, and religious indoctrination in our schools. Why are we Brits so enlightened? Surely we should all be parroting out what our RE teachers told us?

First you'll need to establish that "Brits are so enlightened." I leave you to your proofs.

The UK produced the Beatles and Pink Floyd. That gives them a few very good enlightenment points.

Trigger Warning!!!1! :

I'm trying to take the seriousness in this thread down a notch. I don't think I'll succeed, but it's worth a shot.

[Pappa]

Ironically, Brits are not 40% believers in creation and a 6000 yo Earth and the book of Revelation as a prediction of imminent end of days so let's make decisions to fulfill that prophesy

But we have a non-secular state, and religious indoctrination in our schools. Why are we Brits so enlightened? Surely we should all be parroting out what our RE teachers told us?

There may be something to this ... but it's fucking complex.

I think it does help that the state religion is about as tame a form of christianity as you can get.