Herman Cain: It's Your Fault if You're Unemployed

[Gawdzilla Sama]

It always amazes me that the folks who had the dumb luck to be born into money look down on the folks that had the bad luck not to be born into money. It screams "selfish asshole".

Well, if I sold my parents' farm for several million dollars, I too would arrange my financial affairs in such a way that avoids having to pay tax, and say: "Mine, mine, mine now, all mine. Fuck off, you cunts. Not my problem that you are too stupid and lazy to pick the right parents."

With that kind of money you could get the best sneers available.

[MrJonno]

Local restaurant started up around where I live there were 30 vacancies , waiters etc and 1500 applicants.

I was speaking to the manager and most the succesful applicants either had degrees or were local university students. Basically its not far of that you are going to need a degree to work at mcdonalds.

Quite simply a modern technological automated society doesnt need anywhere near full employment so you either have a welfare state or you have revolution

[Rum]

Local restaurant started up around where I live there were 30 vacancies , waiters etc and 1500 applicants.

I was speaking to the manager and most the succesful applicants either had degrees or were local university students. Basically its not far of that you are going to need a degree to work at mcdonalds.

Quite simply a modern technological automated society doesnt need anywhere near full employment so you either have a welfare state or you have revolution

Yep. Even supermarkets are introducing automated checkouts. Robots and computers doing much of the work actual people did a generation or two ago. Sure there will be an increase in the requirement for more specialized and skilled people but not enough to replace the old semi-skilled ones.

Big changes are afoot.

[MrJonno]

Definitely those automatic checkouts need as least some brains to look after - and use

To be a good waiter requires at least some literacy, maths and at least some social skills, with unemployment as it is a graduate is going to have advantages in going for that

[Coito ergo sum]

Are you retarded?

Frankly, coming from someone who advocated the notion that "everyone should be paid the same salary no matter what, whether they work or not" that is is a fairly laughable accusation.

[Coito ergo sum]

This should not mean abasing themselves to whatever lousy conditions or ridiculously low wages offered; that's where unions and collective bargaining can be the ally of the working man against totally rapacious capitalism.

mmm So when you work your ass off and learn new skills and how to to do multiple jobs for a company they probably shouldn't take advantage of you working a 96 hour week ... until they see that your pay packet is quite large then ask you to be junior management (therefore on a salary ) and 3 weeks later you shouldn't find that you are the only one out of a work force of 100 people that hasn't received an annual pay increase ?
And Of course It's perfectly fine for your boss to charge £400 /hr for your skills yet pay you £4 ? It gets better , he was happy to charge £800/hour if my services were needed after hours but would not pay me double time .
You may want to subscribe to the protestant work ethic but personally I fail to link my self worth with my job And if you don't like the fact that the government pays me a pittance to survive on then You won't object to me going back to criminal means to support myself will you ?

If you work in an industry where your hourly services can be billed to a customer at 400 pounds an hour, and you're only being paid 4 pounds an hour, I would make what I feel to be the quite obvious suggestion that you quit your job and call up the customer and tell him you'll perform the services directly for 300 pounds an hour. Why wouldn't you do that?

[Feck]

This should not mean abasing themselves to whatever lousy conditions or ridiculously low wages offered; that's where unions and collective bargaining can be the ally of the working man against totally rapacious capitalism.

mmm So when you work your ass off and learn new skills and how to to do multiple jobs for a company they probably shouldn't take advantage of you working a 96 hour week ... until they see that your pay packet is quite large then ask you to be junior management (therefore on a salary ) and 3 weeks later you shouldn't find that you are the only one out of a work force of 100 people that hasn't received an annual pay increase ?
And Of course It's perfectly fine for your boss to charge £400 /hr for your skills yet pay you £4 ? It gets better , he was happy to charge £800/hour if my services were needed after hours but would not pay me double time .
You may want to subscribe to the protestant work ethic but personally I fail to link my self worth with my job And if you don't like the fact that the government pays me a pittance to survive on then You won't object to me going back to criminal means to support myself will you ?

If you work in an industry where your hourly services can be billed to a customer at 400 pounds an hour, and you're only being paid 4 pounds an hour, I would make what I feel to be the quite obvious suggestion that you quit your job and call up the customer and tell him you'll perform the services directly for 300 pounds an hour. Why wouldn't you do that?

Because I quit work and went straight to the loony bin instead .

[MrJonno]

If you work in an industry where your hourly services can be billed to a customer at 400 pounds an hour, and you're only being paid 4 pounds an hour, I would make what I feel to be the quite obvious suggestion that you quit your job and call up the customer and tell him you'll perform the services directly for 300 pounds an hour. Why wouldn't you do that?

your current employer would sue the shit out of you, any sensible contract would prevent you from doing this. I have never signed a contract that didnt specifically how long you would have to wait before going to work for a customer typically 1 or 2 years.

Even at 400 pounds an hour they arent just employing you they are employing an organisation that has enough money to sue if you cock up

[Azathoth]

So what do you think about education being the sole preserve of the rich in the US seth? Working hard doesn't cut it when you are crippled by debt and there aren't any graduate jobs

That's why higher education is often wasted on the lumpen proletariat. College should be something to be earned through hard work and scholarship and it should be reserved for the best and brightest. Those who show great promise should get scholarships for college.

Everybody else should get vocational education in a trade, thus avoiding a massive student loan bill that does little more than give one an incredibly expensive piece of toilet paper that's worthless in the real world.

After all, somebody's got to plumb the toilets and wire the houses and dig ditches and pick onions and flip burgers. You don't need a college degree for any of that.

Congratulations you just described the higher education system in the former USSR

[Seth]

If you work in an industry where your hourly services can be billed to a customer at 400 pounds an hour, and you're only being paid 4 pounds an hour, I would make what I feel to be the quite obvious suggestion that you quit your job and call up the customer and tell him you'll perform the services directly for 300 pounds an hour. Why wouldn't you do that?

your current employer would sue the shit out of you, any sensible contract would prevent you from doing this. I have never signed a contract that didnt specifically how long you would have to wait before going to work for a customer typically 1 or 2 years.

Oh, you signed a CONTRACT did you? Well, stupid you I guess. If you signed a contract without making sure the terms were acceptable, why should anyone have any sympathy for you? And if you don't like the terms of the contract you signed any longer, well, it sucks to be you I guess, because the whole point of a contract is to obtain a binding "meeting of the minds" over wages and compensation. For someone to bitch about their employment contract just because the employer is making a profit after paying your labor contract is pure greed and selfishness, now isn't it?

Next time, be more careful with the contracts you sign. Until then, do what you agreed to do for what you agreed to be paid. After all, if you were the employer you'd do EXACTLY the same thing; you'd negotiate a labor contract that has you paying as little as you can get away with to your employees and you'd negotiate a services contract that has you getting as much as you can from your client. That's how business works, you see. Your employer owes you nothing more than you agreed to take when you signed the contract of employment, and what he charges is none of your business, so qwitcherbitchen and do your job, and be thankful you HAVE a job in this economy.

Nobody owes you anything. Adapt or die.

[MattShizzle]

And that's why Capitalism should be illegal, or at least much more regulated.

[MattShizzle]

What's the choice if every company has a contract like that? Either accept it or starve. I don't think companies should be allowed to make contracts without apporval from the government and shit like that shouldn't be allowed.

[MattShizzle]

Are you retarded?

Frankly, coming from someone who advocated the notion that "everyone should be paid the same salary no matter what, whether they work or not" that is is a fairly laughable accusation.

So why should someone be paid more just because they were lucky enough to get a job/better job?

[MrJonno]

yes I always get to negotiate any employment contract , maybe on planet Seth.

I suspect even without such a contract your employer could probable sue you for industrial esponiage, going to work for a customer is a complete no=no in any job. Expect to never work again in the same industry if did this. Almost most customers of any business Ive worked for have also signed contracts saying they cant recruit either to stop the old -I didnt ask for them a job they asked me

[Coito ergo sum]

Be real. Success in life is nearly 100% a matter of luck.

That depends on your definition of the word "success."

But, you be real, an adult making minimum wage only is not trying. We're not even really in the realm of "success" there. If a person wants to make over "minimum wage" that's a matter of choice. All you have to do is be willing to work and put in some hours.

A person 'wielding a broom' in a supermarket is willing to work and putting in some hours. I agree with Matt that the person should be paid at least an equitable rate for his/her time and effort. Anything less is unfair discriminatory exploitation.

I think at least part of the the reason supermarket workers here range so much in age and are doing a variety of tasks is because the company is expected to pay pretty much equal rates for all tasks.

You'd have to put a number on "equitable."

Typically, in the US, a person joins a business at an entry level, and in a store or supermarket, it would be about breaking up boxes, and bagging groceries. Staffing the checkout line is very easy. Then there are folks stocking the shelves and whatnot, and as tasks get more complicated and with more responsibliity, the wage tends to go up.

But, my point is merely this - if I was going to hire someone to sweep floors and take out the trash, I wouldn't pay them as much as someone to do bookkeeping. I don't feel the sweeping and trash handling is worth the same money as bookkeeping. I can't do the bookkeeping myself as efficiently, and I'd prefer to pay the bookkeeper more to make sure I have a skilled, experienced person to do it.

That illustrates the basic distinction I am making. Sweeping floors is a kid's job. Bookkeeping is more of an adult's job. If an adult wants to do sweeping, then fine, but what's an equitable wage for them? $40,000 a year? $50,000? If it's going to cost that much, then I'm not going to hire a sweeper at all.

Replace "I" with "Corporation X" and the principle remains the same.

I guess from my perspective I have never seen something like "bagging at the Foodmart" or handing fries out of a window to be a lifelong pursuit or a career. Generally, I see such jobs as first jobs for kids, side jobs for students, and secondary incomes for families where a primary breadwinner is being supplemented by a spouse getting a job for some additional income. Maybe this is an area I need to revisit, and give this some more reflection.

When I hear people who say they make only minimum wage, and can't get out of that situation, I think of all the immigrants that I know very well. I will give you an example, let's call her Jane Doe, who moved to the US from a South American country 9 years ago. She started out working in convenience stores and gas stations - 7 Eleven, and commonly worked double shifts. With that experience and work ethic, she got a job as a bank teller, making just a bit more more than at the checkout counter at the 7 Eleven store. She worked hard as a teller, and later became a bank associate opening and managing people's accounts and selling banking products. After several years of doing that, she got a job at another bank in an area dealing with international banking transactions and securities. She now makes around $50,000 per year, excellent benefits, and a nice work environment. An above average salary, and still moving up.

She wasn't "born rich." She worked her ass off. Was she just "lucky?" Not in my book. No luck. It was hard work. Sweat beats luck every time.

I have noticed immigrants beat the ass of native born Americans at this kind of thing. That may be why my perspective is very pro immigrant - I am the child of immigrants, and I was raised with that mentality. I wasn't born into money.

Another example from the immigrant community is the illegal immigrant community. Here is a community that is painted by native born Americans, quite often, as some sort of downtrodden minority. Yet, it is the native born Americans complaining about working for minimum wage. I know a great many illegal aliens, because I know a lot of foreign born people, and you would be surprised how many illegals are around. The ones I know tend to work a lot of construction and cleaning jobs - lots of folks in the office cleaning industry, and in the house cleaning industry, and in the flooring, tiling, and interior trim construction fields, and similar labor type jobs.

Do you think they work for minimum wage? Not a chance. They apparently know how to make money, and they wouldn't be caught dead working for minimum wage - not for long, anyway.

I love my immigrant friends - they are inspirational. They overcome, improvise and adapt. I haven't heard any of them pissing and moaning like I hear native born
Americans.

If illegal aliens and legal immigrants can do it, then I don't know what's holding back the native born Americans. I really don't.

It seems there are accusations thrown around here about folks on my side of this issue being "born into money" and "just lucky." For me, that isn't true. I was not born wealthy, and I haven't been lucky. And, none of the successful friends that I have were born into money or lucky. They worked - hard.