Herman Cain: It's Your Fault if You're Unemployed

[Seth]

So what do you think about education being the sole preserve of the rich in the US seth? Working hard doesn't cut it when you are crippled by debt and there aren't any graduate jobs

That's why higher education is often wasted on the lumpen proletariat. College should be something to be earned through hard work and scholarship and it should be reserved for the best and brightest. Those who show great promise should get scholarships for college.

Everybody else should get vocational education in a trade, thus avoiding a massive student loan bill that does little more than give one an incredibly expensive piece of toilet paper that's worthless in the real world.

After all, somebody's got to plumb the toilets and wire the houses and dig ditches and pick onions and flip burgers. You don't need a college degree for any of that.

[MattShizzle]

Are you retarded?

[Feck]

This should not mean abasing themselves to whatever lousy conditions or ridiculously low wages offered; that's where unions and collective bargaining can be the ally of the working man against totally rapacious capitalism.

mmm So when you work your ass off and learn new skills and how to to do multiple jobs for a company they probably shouldn't take advantage of you working a 96 hour week ... until they see that your pay packet is quite large then ask you to be junior management (therefore on a salary ) and 3 weeks later you shouldn't find that you are the only one out of a work force of 100 people that hasn't received an annual pay increase ?
And Of course It's perfectly fine for your boss to charge £400 /hr for your skills yet pay you £4 ? It gets better , he was happy to charge £800/hour if my services were needed after hours but would not pay me double time .
You may want to subscribe to the protestant work ethic but personally I fail to link my self worth with my job And if you don't like the fact that the government pays me a pittance to survive on then You won't object to me going back to criminal means to support myself will you ?

[JimC]

This should not mean abasing themselves to whatever lousy conditions or ridiculously low wages offered; that's where unions and collective bargaining can be the ally of the working man against totally rapacious capitalism.

mmm So when you work your ass off and learn new skills and how to to do multiple jobs for a company they probably shouldn't take advantage of you working a 96 hour week ... until they see that your pay packet is quite large then ask you to be junior management (therefore on a salary ) and 3 weeks later you shouldn't find that you are the only one out of a work force of 100 people that hasn't received an annual pay increase ?
And Of course It's perfectly fine for your boss to charge £400 /hr for your skills yet pay you £4 ? It gets better , he was happy to charge £800/hour if my services were needed after hours but would not pay me double time .
You may want to subscribe to the protestant work ethic but personally I fail to link my self worth with my job And if you don't like the fact that the government pays me a pittance to survive on then You won't object to me going back to criminal means to support myself will you ?

That is why I talk about unions and collective bargaining. Not a perfect solution, but in Oz at least, a hell of a lot better than nothing...

[Feck]

When the government decided that all people in the catering trade should be entitled to an overtime rate and sent every establishment a poster to be displayed My employers sacked a woman for pining it up in the staff room and when I objected they stopped all overtime (but wanted the same work done ) and told everyone that they were not getting any extra hours Because of ME
Yep the problem that caused the financial crash was the welfare system and the work shy . Our government has decided that they will not assist rent payments for single people under 35 They have decided that the minimum wage leaves you below the poverty line but above the threshold for any government assistance unless you have children . The cuts to welfare this government has pushed through are not only about the same amount as the tax they have allowed the biggest companies to avoid but probably could have been paid for by the bonuses given to the Banking system alone .

[Seth]

Are you retarded?

Not even a little, but I'm not too sure about you...

[Seth]

This should not mean abasing themselves to whatever lousy conditions or ridiculously low wages offered; that's where unions and collective bargaining can be the ally of the working man against totally rapacious capitalism.

mmm So when you work your ass off and learn new skills and how to to do multiple jobs for a company they probably shouldn't take advantage of you working a 96 hour week ... until they see that your pay packet is quite large then ask you to be junior management (therefore on a salary ) and 3 weeks later you shouldn't find that you are the only one out of a work force of 100 people that hasn't received an annual pay increase ?
And Of course It's perfectly fine for your boss to charge £400 /hr for your skills yet pay you £4 ? It gets better , he was happy to charge £800/hour if my services were needed after hours but would not pay me double time .
You may want to subscribe to the protestant work ethic but personally I fail to link my self worth with my job And if you don't like the fact that the government pays me a pittance to survive on then You won't object to me going back to criminal means to support myself will you ?

You might find a different employer, or start your own company. You work at YOUR pleasure, for a wage contract that YOU find acceptable. Any time you're dissatisfied with the job duties or wages you're free to find a more accommodating employer, aren't you?

If your services are so valuable that he can charge 400 to 800 per hour and only pay you 4, you need to renegotiate your salary or find another employer. If you don't, and you sit there like a lump working your ass off for a pittance while your boss charges through the nose for your services, you have only yourself to blame. Contact the clients you worked for and offer them your services at HALF your boss's rate and pocket the profits yourself. It's called "independent contracting" and "business competition," and it's how the free market works.

Give it a try, it's how you boost yourself up the economic ladder and quit bitching. You've got a job, and the alternative is, evidently, prison.

[sandinista]

Is this guy for real?

It's a matter of forum balance. There needed to be a counterweight to Gawd, sandinista and Exi5stentialist, and Seth got elected. IMO, he does an excellent job.

counterweight to what? What are you even talking about? Who's your "counterweight"? If anything, politically, I'm more your "counterweight". From what I've read, I disagree with you more than seth.

[JimC]

Is this guy for real?

It's a matter of forum balance. There needed to be a counterweight to Gawd, sandinista and Exi5stentialist, and Seth got elected. IMO, he does an excellent job.

counterweight to what? What are you even talking about? Who's your "counterweight"? If anything, politically, I'm more your "counterweight". From what I've read, I disagree with you more than seth.

Absolutists of whatever stripe do have a lot in common...

Mainly an inability to see shades of gray...

A song from Johnny Cash...

There once was a musical troupe
A pickin' singin' folk group
They sang the mountain ballads
And the folk songs of our land

They were long on musical ability
Folks thought they would go far
But political incompatibility led to their downfall

Well, the one on the right was on the left
And the one in the middle was on the right
And the one on the left was in the middle
And the guy in the rear was a Methodist

This musical aggregation toured the entire nation
Singing the traditional ballads
And the folk songs of our land
They performed with great virtuosity
And soon they were the rage
But political animosity prevailed upon the stage

Well, the one on the right was on the left
And the one in the middle was on the right
And the one on the left was in the middle
And the guy in the rear burned his driver's license

Well the curtain had ascended
A hush fell on the crowd
As thousands there were gathered to hear The folk songs of our land
But they took their politics seriously
And that night at the concert hall
As the audience watched deliriously
They had a free-for-all

Well, the one on the right was on the bottom
And the one in the middle was on the top
And the one on the left got a broken arm
And the guy in the rear, said, "Oh dear"

Now this should be a lesson if you plan to start a folk group
Don't go mixin' politics with the folk songs of our land
Just work on harmony and diction
Play your banjo well
And if you have political convictions keep them to yourself

Now, the one on the left works in a bank
And the one in the middle drives a truck
The one on the right's an all-night deejay
And the guy in the rear got drafted

[Hermit]

In May 2011 the USA had 4.7 job seekers for every job vacancy. Even if all available jobs were filled, there'd still be 11 million jobless left. I'll start believing that the majority of unemployed are jobless because they choose not to work when this ratio is reversed.

[JimC]

In May 2011 the USA had 4.7 job seekers for every job vacancy. Even if all available jobs were filled, there'd still be 11 million jobless left. I'll start believing that the majority of unemployed are jobless because they choose not to work when this ratio is reversed.

Exactly. The whole "reluctant to work" thing (except for a small minority) is a theme the right wing press remorselesly hammer to try to divert attention from the failure of the government to rationally moderate the economy to benefit ordinary folk rather than the fat cats. This is true to a greater or lesser extent to most capitalist economies.

[charlou]

Around here waiter/waitress jobs don't even pay minimum wage. They're expected to make it on tips.

That's generally a good thing. Tips are still money, and generally a busy restaurant results in the bartenders and wait staff being paid far more than the minimum wage.

Supermarket type jobs are maybe $8/hr.

Yes, but that is an adult doing a kid's job. What is a "supermarket type job?" Sweep the floors? Scan products passed a machine which does the counting for you? When I go to the supermarket, the people staffing the checkout scanners are invariably between the ages of 17 and 21.

Why should kids make adult wages? And, why should an adult who chooses to do a kid's job make adult wages?

re supermarket jobs ... seems to be quite different here (Australia) ... both structurally and, it seems from yours, wrt attitudes about it. Staff members range in age from 15 to 55+, in all areas (management age beginning from around 18+) ... breaking boxes, unloading trucks, filling shelves, working a register, stocking fresh food and perishables, servicing the deli, maintaining those areas, ordering and dealing with stock, and interacting with customers all part of the job. There is an age/pay scale for younger workers which I'd like to see brought into line with adult rates for the same work, but other than that it's all equal wrt who does the work .. employees are valued and rewarded by teh company pretty much equally. Yay for workers' unions. Only managers and skilled butchers and bakers get higher salaried rates. I earn $23-$28/hour working in a supermarket and am not on a salary.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

It always amazes me that the folks who had the dumb luck to be born into money look down on the folks that had the bad luck not to be born into money. It screams "selfish asshole".

[Hermit]

It always amazes me that the folks who had the dumb luck to be born into money look down on the folks that had the bad luck not to be born into money. It screams "selfish asshole".

Well, if I sold my parents' farm for several million dollars, I too would arrange my financial affairs in such a way that avoids having to pay tax, and say: "Mine, mine, mine now, all mine. Fuck off, you cunts. Not my problem that you are too stupid and lazy to pick the right parents."

[charlou]

Be real. Success in life is nearly 100% a matter of luck.

That depends on your definition of the word "success."

But, you be real, an adult making minimum wage only is not trying. We're not even really in the realm of "success" there. If a person wants to make over "minimum wage" that's a matter of choice. All you have to do is be willing to work and put in some hours.

A person 'wielding a broom' in a supermarket is willing to work and putting in some hours. I agree with Matt that the person should be paid at least an equitable rate for his/her time and effort. Anything less is unfair discriminatory exploitation.

I think at least part of the the reason supermarket workers here range so much in age and are doing a variety of tasks is because the company is expected to pay pretty much equal rates for all tasks.