Herman Cain: It's Your Fault if You're Unemployed

[Gawdzilla Sama]

responsibility to support himself for herself.

The mantra of right wingers.



Go back to watching FAUX news and listening to Rush.

What? You think we live in a SOCIETY or something?

[Coito ergo sum]

responsibility to support himself for herself.

The mantra of right wingers.

Rather than hand-wave that away, why not respond with your position on it?

Do you think that an able-bodied, able-minded, grown, adult has no obligation whatsoever to support himself or herself? It's o.k. if the answer is "no" - but, we really should be clear on this. You may feel they have "some" obligation in some way, and if so, perhaps you can clarify what you think that is.

I've not spouted any "mantra." I think that should be clear from what I've written. I have not suggested that folks ought not get any assistance, or that they are bad/evil for accepting assistance. I think even able-minded, able-bodied adults can well find themselves in situations where they need help, and I think society ought to help them too.

Why does my suggestion that, by the same token, such people have an obligation to help themselves make you respond with "mantra of right wingers" tripe? We can turn this discussion to a namecalling contest, but I doubt that would be very productive...

Go back to watching FAUX news and listening to Rush.

And, there we have it. Rather than actually discuss the issue, you resort to personal attacks. I'll have you know that I never listen to Rush Limbaugh, since I don't have the radio on during the day. I also never watch Fox News because when I watch t.v. it is usually later in the evening and is either a show my significant other (She Who Must Be Obeyed) wants to watch (she watches the same show every night at 9pm), or something on the History Channel, History INternational, Science Channel, NatGeo, Military History, or similar channels. When I do watch cable news, you'll be surprised to know that it's usually either MSNBC or CNN, but I generally don't watch cable news at all.

But, you didn't bother to ask me. You just launched your putrid attack, suggesting that I must watch (and be brainwashed by, I assume) FoxNews and Rush Limbaugh.

Anyway, so far, your beliefs include that "everyone should make the same money, no matter what job they do, or even if they don't have a job," or words to that effect. You haven't defended that nonsense, of course, because it's indefensible. It's as borderline retarded as the idiot college kids camped out around Wall Street. If I were you, I would dismiss your position as the argument of someone who doesn't understand the first thing about economics, and certainly doesn't have the first clue about what it means to work, run a business, or even the nature of money. Anyone who could even, with a straight face, suggest that everyone, including the unemployed, should be paid the same salary regardless of what they do or why, must think that food magically shows up in the grocery store without human intervention, cars just morph into existence, and ATM machines just print money out of thin air. It's the only explanation....

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Not everything is as utterly black and white as you paint it, C.E.S.

[Coito ergo sum]

Not everything is as utterly black and white as you paint it, C.E.S.

I appear to be the one painting in color.

I'm not the one who accused anyone of spouting any mantras, and I did not make black and white statements like: "everyone should be paid the same regardless of what they do."

My position was not black and white, and I stated explicitly that not only should the disabled and handicapped and children get assistance, but also the able-bodied, able-minded adults who fall on hard times should get assistance. I added to that that at some point able bodied and able-minded adults have some obligation to support themselves. Do you disagree with that?

And, how the hell is that "black and white?" That's called a nuanced position, which does not adopt any sort of absolute position.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Okay then.

[Coito ergo sum]

Okay then.

Out of curiosity, do you agree that able bodied and able minded adults bear some responsibility for taking care of themselves and their families? Just wondering....

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Okay then.

Out of curiosity, do you agree that able bodied and able minded adults bear some responsibility for taking care of themselves and their families? Just wondering....

You know, arguing just for the sake of arguing gets pretty tedious after a while.

[Coito ergo sum]

Okay then.

Out of curiosity, do you agree that able bodied and able minded adults bear some responsibility for taking care of themselves and their families? Just wondering....

You know, arguing just for the sake of arguing gets pretty tedious after a while.

If we're in agreement, there is no argument between us.

I can't tell if we're arguing just for the sake of argument, unless you make your position on the topic clear. You appeared to take issue with what I wrote, which implies that you don't agree with me. I didn't want to put words in your mouth, so I asked.

Either you think people have some responsibility, to some extent, to handle their own affairs, or you don't. If you don't, then we disagree completely, and I would love to hear the basis for your belief that people bear no such responsibility. If you think that they bear some responsibility, then we agree in principle, but we may disagree as to what extent. In that case, it would be an interesting discussion to see where people draw the line.

I thought my line was pretty darn compassionate and liberal, since I am all for giving people in need the assistance that can help them. So, I guess I got a bit defensive at being called a "right winger" and told that I was spewing some sort of "mantra," and somehow brainwashed by foxnews and such.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Fucking weird.

[Coito ergo sum]

Gotcha - we live in a society. Enough said.

[MattShizzle]

I mean the words "personal responsibility" are the mantra of the right wing. They not only use it to blame the victim when it comes to poverty but the suppository-faces who are anti-abortion use it to. I don't think extreme poverty should be used to hang like the sword of Damocles over peoples' heads to keep them enslaved to the Capitalist system. I don't see Capitalism as much, if any, better than slavery. How is "work a rotten job for bad pay or starve/be homeless" any better than "do this work or be beaten/killed?" Frankly I'd rather be dead than homeless or doing a shit job like fast food.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

I mean the words "personal responsibility" are the mantra of the right wing. They not only use it to blame the victim when it comes to poverty but the suppository-faces who are anti-abortion use it to. I don't think extreme poverty should be used to hang like the sword of Damocles over peoples' heads to keep them enslaved to the Capitalist system. I don't see Capitalism as much, if any, better than slavery. How is "work a rotten job for bad pay or starve/be homeless" any better than "do this work or be beaten/killed?" Frankly I'd rather be dead than homeless or doing a shit job like fast food.

It basically means, "You're on your own, don't even think of looking for help, that might cost me money."

[Svartalf]

Funny that CES should believe that this is corollary to living in a society... if feels like saying that every member of a pack is supposed to catch his prey alone, except that the alpha gets the best parts anyway, of course.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

[Coito ergo sum]

I don't think extreme poverty should be used to hang like the sword of Damocles over peoples' heads to keep them enslaved to the Capitalist system.

I don't think so either.

I don't see Capitalism as much, if any, better than slavery.

If you made a rule that people could only be paid the same compensation no matter what, then you would be instituting slavery. Don't you see that?

How is "work a rotten job for bad pay or starve/be homeless"

That's what you're advocating when you say that everyone should make exactly the same.

any better than "do this work or be beaten/killed?" Frankly I'd rather be dead than homeless or doing a shit job like fast food.

Well, fast food jobs, entry level at least, are for kids. After about five (5) years at McDonalds you should be managing a store. They make about $18 to $21 an hour. Assistant manager makes about $15 an hour, and after 2-3 years you should be at that level. If not, you're doing something wrong. Nobody expects, or wants, a person to work as a cashier for five years.