Objective Reality

Do you believe in objective reality

Bacon
2
18%
Cheese
2
18%
Yes
1
9%
No
2
18%
Not sure, how can we be sure of anything?
1
9%
The entire bacon and cheese sandwich.
3
27%
 
Total votes: 11

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rainbow
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Objective Reality

Post by rainbow » Thu Jan 30, 2020 6:25 am

Within Schroedinger's Universe existence can only be established by observation.

Discuss.
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pErvinalia
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Re: Objective Reality

Post by pErvinalia » Thu Jan 30, 2020 6:51 am

Define "observation". More accurately it is probably better to say "interaction".
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Re: Objective Reality

Post by Hermit » Thu Jan 30, 2020 7:01 am

May I plead the fifth problem of induction? If not, I'll have the pizza Napoletana, thanks. And don't spare the garlic.
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rainbow
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Re: Objective Reality

Post by rainbow » Thu Jan 30, 2020 7:14 am

pErvinalia wrote:
Thu Jan 30, 2020 6:51 am
Define "observation". More accurately it is probably better to say "interaction".
Exactly.

Does a bacon and cheese sandwich still taste good if nobody has eaten it yet?
Are the components more tasty when combined, that is - an interaction?
If so, does this imply consiousness?
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rainbow
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Re: Objective Reality

Post by rainbow » Thu Jan 30, 2020 7:20 am

Hermit wrote:
Thu Jan 30, 2020 7:01 am
May I plead the fifth problem of induction? If not, I'll have the pizza Napoletana, thanks. And don't spare the garlic.
Talking about garlic, if Aliens were to land in France, might they not deduce that humans smell slightly odd?
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Re: Objective Reality

Post by Svartalf » Thu Jan 30, 2020 7:26 am

What's odd with the smell of garlic? it's those who don't eat it in proper amounts that are weird.
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rainbow
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Re: Objective Reality

Post by rainbow » Thu Jan 30, 2020 8:05 am

Mais Il faut manger pour vivre et non vivre pour manger, non?
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Re: Objective Reality

Post by Hermit » Thu Jan 30, 2020 8:47 am

rainbow wrote:
Thu Jan 30, 2020 7:20 am
Hermit wrote:
Thu Jan 30, 2020 7:01 am
May I plead the fifth problem of induction? If not, I'll have the pizza Napoletana, thanks. And don't spare the garlic.
Talking about garlic, if Aliens were to land in France, might they not deduce that humans smell slightly odd?
If Aliens were to land in France I'd expect them to be of a sufficiently advanced mindset to avoid making such a mistake. Of course the mistake is not the perception that the frogs smell slightly odd. It is the awareness that humans they have no experience of may not necessarily emanate the same stench as those whose olfactory assaults they have endured. In short, they would have learnt the lesson Bertrand Russell's turkey did not.
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Re: Objective Reality

Post by Svartalf » Thu Jan 30, 2020 8:57 am

rainbow wrote:
Thu Jan 30, 2020 8:05 am
Mais Il faut manger pour vivre et non vivre pour manger, non?
Foutaise.
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Re: Objective Reality

Post by JimC » Thu Jan 30, 2020 10:08 am

My take:

There is a real, material universe, not some weird spirit realm. However, our ability to accurately model this reality is severely limited, in that evolution has designed our cognitive apparatus to work in a quick and dirty way, so our personal models are excellent at avoiding sabre tooth tigers and mating, but not so good at discerning what lies behind. Science and maths let us get deeper in, but the picture of reality that emerges becomes, inevitably, more and more distant from the personal cognitive models that have worked so well in a survival sense.
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Re: Objective Reality

Post by Brian Peacock » Thu Jan 30, 2020 10:38 am

rainbow wrote:
Thu Jan 30, 2020 7:20 am
Hermit wrote:
Thu Jan 30, 2020 7:01 am
May I plead the fifth problem of induction? If not, I'll have the pizza Napoletana, thanks. And don't spare the garlic.
Talking about garlic, if Aliens were to land in France, might they not deduce that humans smell slightly odd?
Only if they had some kind of schema classifying the range of human olfactory experience in relation to the socially constructed normative values associated with the perception of certain combinations of air-born molecules.

I for one believe that our true lizard masters smell like rose petals cast upon a harvest breeze.
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rainbow
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Re: Objective Reality

Post by rainbow » Thu Jan 30, 2020 12:12 pm

Svartalf wrote:
Thu Jan 30, 2020 8:57 am
rainbow wrote:
Thu Jan 30, 2020 8:05 am
Mais Il faut manger pour vivre et non vivre pour manger, non?
Foutaise.
:roll:
Les conneries sont de la nourriture pour l'exquis
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rainbow
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Re: Objective Reality

Post by rainbow » Thu Jan 30, 2020 12:16 pm

Brian Peacock wrote:
Thu Jan 30, 2020 10:38 am
rainbow wrote:
Thu Jan 30, 2020 7:20 am
Hermit wrote:
Thu Jan 30, 2020 7:01 am
May I plead the fifth problem of induction? If not, I'll have the pizza Napoletana, thanks. And don't spare the garlic.
Talking about garlic, if Aliens were to land in France, might they not deduce that humans smell slightly odd?
Only if they had some kind of schema classifying the range of human olfactory experience in relation to the socially constructed normative values associated with the perception of certain combinations of air-born molecules.

I for one believe that our true lizard masters smell like rose petals cast upon a harvest breeze.
...a bit like β-ionone with a touch of geraniol and perhaps some tones of geosmin?
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rainbow
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Re: Objective Reality

Post by rainbow » Thu Jan 30, 2020 12:18 pm

JimC wrote:
Thu Jan 30, 2020 10:08 am
My take:

There is a real, material universe, not some weird spirit realm. However, our ability to accurately model this reality is severely limited, in that evolution has designed our cognitive apparatus to work in a quick and dirty way, so our personal models are excellent at avoiding sabre tooth tigers and mating, but not so good at discerning what lies behind. Science and maths let us get deeper in, but the picture of reality that emerges becomes, inevitably, more and more distant from the personal cognitive models that have worked so well in a survival sense.
A bit tedious, but some good stuff:
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Re: Objective Reality

Post by laklak » Thu Jan 30, 2020 2:42 pm

We're amoebas crawling around a petri dish, bumping into the sides and making up stories about it all.
Hermit wrote:
Thu Jan 30, 2020 7:01 am
... I'll have the pizza Napoletana, thanks. And don't spare the garlic.
That is a damn good idea for dinner tonight. Cooking for one is a pain. Might even order a pie, you know, splurge. Live a little.
Yeah well that's just, like, your opinion, man.

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