Ban Ronald McDonald?

[Gallstones]

I am really craving a cheeseburger loaded right now.

I think McDonald's is the only place still open.

Yeah - see if the burger you ACTUALLY get looks anything like that ad agency propaganda lie.
You'll get a soggy bun with some frumpy lettuce showing, and a meat patty so small you can't even see it unless you lift off the top of the bun...

Not when I make it at home. Mine might not be a perfectly disc shaped, but they pile up as well as that one.

[sandinista]

reference?

Code: Select all

Main direct drivers             Rate of Deforestation/Degradation (percentage)

Commercial agriculture:
Commercial crops                                        20
Cattle ranching (large scale)                           12

Subsistence farming:
Small scale agriculture/shifting cultivation            42
Fuel-wood and NTFP gathering                             6

Wood extraction:
Commercial (legal and illegal)                          14
Fuel-wood/charcoal (traded)                              5

United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change, Investment and Financial Flows to Address Climate Change, 2007, p. 81.

Globally, subsistence farming is #1, farming of commercial crops is #2, and ranching is far behind at #4. But hey, feel free to cherry pick atypical regional data so you don't have to admit the truth.

admit the truth do you have a link to that chart? I think you're the one cherry picking btw.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2367646/

The farm animal sector is the single largest anthropogenic user of land, contributing to many environmental problems, including global warming and climate change.

[Warren Dew]

do you have a link to that chart? I think you're the one cherry picking btw.

Don't know how to google a document title? Perhaps that explains your frequent lack of facts. Here's a link to the PDF:

http://unfccc.int/resource/docs/publica ... _flows.pdf

And if I were cherry picking, I definitely wouldn't be quoting a UN document.

[sandinista]

do you have a link to that chart? I think you're the one cherry picking btw.

Don't know how to google a document title? Perhaps that explains your frequent lack of facts. Here's a link to the PDF:

http://unfccc.int/resource/docs/publica ... _flows.pdf

And if I were cherry picking, I definitely wouldn't be quoting a UN document.

I quoted a UN report as well. yah, you're so full of sh...facts

[Warren Dew]

I quoted a UN report as well.

To the contrary, you quoted a wikipedia page and a U.S. Humane Society report. You also didn't notice that the quotes don't actually support your position.

[sandinista]

http://www.unep.org/resourcepanel/docum ... t_Full.pdf

check page 76 I believe.

[Hermit]

"Eating plants" does not come even close to the massive harm caused to the environment from factory farmed industrial meat.

Eating plants is responsible for the vast majority of deforestation that has occurred across human history. Beside agriculture, modern feedlots are a relatively minor concern.

You got that one wrong. Most deforestation in Argentina and Brazil, for instance, occurs to make space for pastures that feed the cattle which are in turn produced for human consumption.
Link. If you want more, look them up yourself.

[Warren Dew]

Sheesh guys, read the numbers. The Amazon is not the only place that's being deforested. Most deforestation these days is occuring in Africa and Asia. That's why subsistence farming and mercantile farming account for five times as much deforesting as ranching.

But sure, I understand, vegetarianism is a religion, and adherents must reject any facts that might conflict with it.

[Hermit]

Subsistence farming and mercantile farming have nothing to do with meat production?

I am not a vegetarian, and have no intention of becoming one.

[Warren Dew]

Subsistence farming and mercantile farming have nothing to do with meat production?

Ranching was broken out separately. Again, read the quote from the U.N. report in my earlier post for the specific worldwide figures.

[Hermit]

Subsistence farming and mercantile farming have nothing to do with meat production?

Ranching was broken out separately. Again, read the quote from the U.N. report in my earlier post for the specific worldwide figures.

Ah. UN report. Right. Livestock farming appears to be ranked third in terms of total environmental impacts. Only vehicle manufacturing and pig iron/crude steel products are ahead of it. In terms of organic resources used it is first by a country mile. I put it to you that most of those resources are acquired at the cost of other land uses, particularly forests. Saying that eating plants is responsible for the vast majority of deforestation is utter rubbish. It flies in the face of the facts.

[Warren Dew]

Take a look at the report I linked to, Seraph. It shows quite clearly that eating plants is #1 and #2 on the causes of deforestation - subsistence cultivation and nonsubsistence crop farming.

From the standpoint of greenhouse gases, sure, ranched animals fart more methane than do crops. But the fact is, if you replaced the ranched animals with wild animals, they'd still fart the same amount of methane into the air. That's not an environmental impact that's bad for nature - it's just bad for humans.

[Hermit]

Take a look at the report I linked to, Seraph. It shows quite clearly that eating plants is #1 and #2 on the causes of deforestation - subsistence cultivation and nonsubsistence crop farming.

I see no link anywhere, but if you are perchance referring to some data you inserted between code tags, you seem to have left out some rather telling figures from the rest of the table you cited: Deforestation/degradation of land due to large scale cattle ranching amounts to 1.6 million hectares per year. All other commercial agriculture is responsible for 2.6 million. Minor concern? I think not. Not even in comparison to subsistence farming (including wood gathering and non-timber forest products), which is responsible for 6.25 million hectares per year, especially considering how many mouths it feeds.

For those who are interested in the full report and table, here is the actual link: http://www.scribd.com/doc/36921929/Inve ... ate-Change

[sandinista]

The wonderful world of internet forums, even though Warren Dew has been shown to be wrong many times over, he will never admit to it. Oh well...that's the way it goes.

anyway, the point that may have been lost by now was; coito is claiming "liberty" is the freedom to do whatever one wants...such as eating a bigshit. I questioned that...he responded that eating a mcshit burger does no harm to anyone therefore...liberty! On the contrary, it, very clearly, does harm to many.

[egbert]

Take a look at the report I linked to, Seraph. It shows quite clearly that eating plants is #1 and #2 on the causes of deforestation

It's gotten so bad around here that when you take the family out for a picnic in the woods, all you see are marauding bands of vegetarians gnawing at the tree trunks. Even the beavers have abandoned the woods, and moved into town where they can still find trees to build their dams with...